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Post by gregwarhamsters on Aug 20, 2018 6:21:58 GMT
The spell walk between worlds makes the unit ethereal, now there are two different casting values but this just increases movement now a question came up about ethereal movement this weekend and in the BRB it talks of terrain but of course I want to be able to move my unit through and behind enemy units, now I don't see why I can't especially if I'm not of this physical world. Added to that the spells pretty useless if you can't move through your units or your opponents. I get I cannot end up in terrain or an enemy unit so placement is still but the fact remains can I or can I not move through UNITS while ethereal.
Greg
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 20, 2018 8:08:31 GMT
The Ethereal special rule does not allow you to pass through units.
BRB p. 68: "Ethereal creatures treat all terrain as open terrain for the purposes of movement. They may not finish their movement inside impassable terrain — though they can pass through obstructions of this kind, they cannot linger." Note: "obstructions of this kind", i.e. impassable terrain.
What is impassable terrain?
BRB p. 116: Impassable terrain covers those areas of the board that our warriors physically cannot enter as a matter of course, or to which they cannot seek entry without an immediate and probably messy death. Impassable terrain therefore covers such things as lava fields, deep lakes or chasms.
Terrain is, of course, terrain. Units are never referred to as terrain.
Note also that, for example, Hexwraiths are allowed to pass through units, not because of their Ethereal special rule, but because of their Soulstriders special rule:
Vampire AB p. 41: Soulstriders: "Hexwraiths and Hellwraiths can move through unengaged units (whether friend or enemy) during the Remaining Moves sub-phase, but cannot end their movement withing 1" of another unit."
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Aug 20, 2018 9:24:48 GMT
Therefore I see little point in the spell.
Greg
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 20, 2018 11:37:47 GMT
It is situational, but it can be very powerful. Remember, the unit had already the opportunity to move in the Movement Phase. With this spell, it can move another 10" or 20", while ignoring any terrain obstacles (and, not to forget, dangerous terrain). This allows you to circumvent, penetrate or disrupt the enemy's disposition.
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Post by mottdon on Aug 20, 2018 13:27:56 GMT
Aside from the movement aspect of the spell, just try imagining going up against 30 White Lions in CC while they are Ethereal! If you don't have a magical attack of some sort, you're screwed! That's the more important aspect of the spell to me. Sure, most games ARE won in the movement phase, but HE aren't exactly slow. And, yes, the extra movement is nice, but I've found that in most cases, it hasn't been just a game changing aspect. If you could charge with that extra movement, that'd be huge though.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 20, 2018 15:23:58 GMT
mottdon: I am afraid not. The spell only lasts "until the end of the phase," and is not active anymore in CC.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 21, 2018 8:03:46 GMT
To give an ecample: before the first turn, Ellyrian Reavers could first make a Vanguard move of up to 12", then they could march another 18" in the Movement phase, and with "Walk between Worlds" make another 10 or 20" move in the Magic phase. So, in the first turn, they could have moved a staggering 50", and well behind enemy lines.
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Aug 23, 2018 19:57:02 GMT
FvonSigmaringen is right about the phase bit, it's only therefore useful if I can wheel and turn my way around enemy units, sure smaller units can do this but larger ones can't and now I think the spell isn't as useful as first thought.
Greg
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Post by grandmasterwang on Aug 24, 2018 9:42:18 GMT
Aside from the movement aspect of the spell, just try imagining going up against 30 White Lions in CC while they are Ethereal! If you don't have a magical attack of some sort, you're screwed! That's the more important aspect of the spell to me. Sure, most games ARE won in the movement phase, but HE aren't exactly slow. And, yes, the extra movement is nice, but I've found that in most cases, it hasn't been just a game changing aspect. If you could charge with that extra movement, that'd be huge though. I'm so glad it's not how you describe...that would be the most borked thing ever! Oh, my White Lion Star is ethereal, good luck attacking them... .. aha...I have now enchanted my guys and now they actually have magical attacks so I can get through the ethereal and finally do some damage .... actually the White Lions have the banner of the world dragon so all you really did was give me a ward save.... ****
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 24, 2018 11:25:55 GMT
In fact, a similar combo was routinely used in the 6th edition: Walk between Worlds + Talisman of Saphery (treat enemy magical weapons as normal when in btb with wearer). WbW did last until the next own Magic phase, but it affected only the caster (if of foot).
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Post by mottdon on Aug 24, 2018 11:38:18 GMT
Aside from the movement aspect of the spell, just try imagining going up against 30 White Lions in CC while they are Ethereal! If you don't have a magical attack of some sort, you're screwed! That's the more important aspect of the spell to me. Sure, most games ARE won in the movement phase, but HE aren't exactly slow. And, yes, the extra movement is nice, but I've found that in most cases, it hasn't been just a game changing aspect. If you could charge with that extra movement, that'd be huge though. I'm so glad it's not how you describe...that would be the most borked thing ever! Oh, my White Lion Star is ethereal, good luck attacking them... .. aha...I have now enchanted my guys and now they actually have magical attacks so I can get through the ethereal and finally do some damage .... actually the White Lions have the banner of the world dragon so all you really did was give me a ward save.... **** Exactly! And this is why Ethereal is only allowed during that one phase. The Ethereal part of this spell is rather misleading, IMO. I think that they added it so that you wouldn't suffer any negative penalties for moving through objects (fences, etc.), but the whole fluff of the spell would seem to imply that there is a larger intent behind it. It's basically allowing High Elves, Wood Elves, or Lizardmen to gain board control. That can be a huge advantage. Imagine if you're facing a Bretonnian army with your Lizardmen. You push your Stegadon up as far as he can go in your movement phase, then, after exhausting your opponent's DD in your magic phase, you cast WBW on your Stegadon. Now you're in his Knight's flank. If he moves them forward, you're in his rear for an easy charge. That one spell can take all of the impetuous out of an army.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 24, 2018 16:48:36 GMT
It is really a versatile spell. It can be used for
1. Fast deployment, allowing disruption of the enemy battle plan, early war machine hunting, or the occupation of salient points; and in the end stage extra victory points (depending on the scenario). Particularly useful for Flyers, Fast Cavalry, Scouts, anything with the Vanguard special rule. 2. Concentration of forces, based on the principle Getrennt marschieren, vereint schlagen. 3. Combat evasion, when threatened by a superior enemy 4. Against Orcs & Goblins: getting the Fanatics and Mangler Squids out without risking damage
And do not forget, while the units cannot charge, they can still cast spells or shoot that same turn.
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Post by vulcan on Aug 24, 2018 23:08:41 GMT
Imagine if you're facing a Bretonnian army with your Lizardmen. Let's face it, the Bretonnians (assuming they're using their official book) are pretty well borked right there .
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Post by airjamy on Oct 16, 2018 12:42:06 GMT
Therefore I see little point in the spell. Greg I think it is one of the strongest spells for the Lizardmen when using High Magic. So often, battle lines are anchored around terrain. It can really mess an opponent up if your unit of heavy cavalry suddenly walked through that rock in the middle of their line, now poised to either take out a warmachine or perform a rear charge. WFB is a game about army positioning and movement, and this is one of the best spells to improve your positioning.
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Post by knoffles on Oct 16, 2018 15:45:13 GMT
The only thing I’ve found with this spell is you need to think ahead to use it, often completing wheels before casting. Even then I find to get the most out of it, you normally want to use the boosted version and its best used on cav (due to the inherent high move), especially if you need to wheel to set up a charge afterwards. I suppose it depends on the unit you cast it on and what your purpose is for using it (the steg is a good one to use it on). I’ve found the hand of gork spell is often more dangerous if utilised with combat blocks (if more random) as you pick up and place the unit, so can change the facing etc as you like.
Now waits to see if he has screwed up his understanding of both spells (as both were done from memory 😀).
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