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Post by Crazy_Dokta on Nov 25, 2021 21:47:43 GMT
Hi all.
About marks - the most useful are, of course, Slaanesh on chaff&chariots or small gor units (due our poor leadership) and Tzeentch on Bulls , no matter flying or foot, as it was presented in some ETC list years ago. Nurgle on bestigors is pretty good too. Khorne? Maybe sometimes on ambushing gors, but i'm not shure.
What about chariot-lists? Not 2 in core (not enough) or razorgors (oveprice), but lot of them. I don't like big mobs of infatry like 50+gors & 40besti (they aren't bad half either.Even big mob of ungors is not bad if you may provide combocharge and stay steadfast) or any of our Rare choices. I consider this as more competitive. Let's say, one meaty unit of bestigors+stubborn lord, some shamans in msu-gors behind it (maybe around herdstone) and all the rest points in chariots. And, of course, our solo-pumbagors and/or harpie/other chaff.
By the way, lists with 2 great shamans are pretty good (especially if one is stubborn with Shadows. "Flying stubborn" if and where you need it) if you rely on many troops mobs.
P.S. My English isn’t very good, so please excuse any mistakes.
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Post by DemolitionMan on Nov 26, 2021 16:00:56 GMT
RE: Marks
My experience says the following - Slaanesh for ungor raiders (don't panic captain mainwaring!), ungor herds and minotaurs want nurgle, Khorne for chariots - the extra attacks will honestly make a difference, 2hw gor and bestigor want khorne, hand weapon and shield gor want tzeentch. Your general wants Tzeentch because a 3++ ward becomes a thing.
What do you mean you don't use sword and board gors? Well obviously without marks you would never be that stupid, of course, but with marks...... WS4 T4 5++ ward in combat, wildform for T5 5++. The Phoenix Gor'd are here to be the most cost effective anvil you'll ever use! Ironcurse icon now gives the entire unit a 5++ vs war machines for 5pts, the blackened plate gives the entire unit a 3++ vs flaming attacks etc etc. Tzeentch is your friend. well, combined with a khorne hammer unit or savage beast character anyway
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Post by DemolitionMan on Nov 26, 2021 16:08:08 GMT
Also, Khorne Centigors are excellent glass hammers - with a champ 5 of them put out 16 S5 attacks on the charge. I've found more than 5 = bullet magnet, 5 = left alone to kill something
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Post by Crazy_Dokta on Dec 17, 2021 16:45:19 GMT
Okay, what we gonna do with cheesy (really cheesy) elves? High or dark ones. 1) Cauldron death-star (witches/executioners, maybe + Hellebron) 2)WhiteLions-star with Dragon banner + Allarielle. 2500 points, "normal" Lords&Heroes allowance (25%), I guess. - Nuke them with "Save-or-die" spells? Okay, we have Death&Shadow and both of them are "Initiative test" => meh. In fact they're better than us in magic aspect, sadly. - "Save 1+ rerollable" (ramhorn helm+stuff on Bull/Goatlord)? Well, opponent will just hit the others (R&F) models. Also in case HE he'll just cast Unforging (or whatever it's name... "Destroy magic item" spell). - Ignore them? (These units, not these opponents  ) All right, I guess my opponent isn't idiot, he'll be able to field his units properly and he'll have redirectors/counter-charge units. - Maneuvering more and better than he? (We are Beastmen, we are the Kings of maneuvering after all! ) Field more (MOAR!) ungor-raiders/pumbagors and hope for combo-charges? Maybe. - Lots and lots of chariots (and chaff) and hope you'll destroy them with impacts? Maybe it's much better. Any ideas? (And no, it's not a grumbling post "Damn, I hate elves!" ) |
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Post by DemolitionMan on Jan 7, 2022 16:48:14 GMT
Dokta, are we using marks in this discussion or just vanilla flavoured beasts? Either way always bring a Cygor, elves are all T3 pansies with little armour.
If we're using marks then my simple go-to solution is to throw the Phoenix Gor'd into said deathstars' path and concentrate on everything else.
If we're not, then I'll throw chaff at them and concentrate on everything else
Basically don't go toe-to-toe with them is my favourite solution lol, they are very powerful units that I'd rather avoid. Be interested to hear other opinions and ideas though?
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Post by knoffles on Jan 7, 2022 23:05:27 GMT
I agree. I never fully appreciated the power of chaff until I played Beastmen. It’s one army that I often really load up on it, specifically to throw in front of anything I really don’t want to face. The only ‘bad’ chaff option we have is the dogs and it’s not that they are bad, it’s just not counting towards core that is a mark against them.
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Post by Crazy_Dokta on Jan 9, 2022 6:48:34 GMT
DemolitionMan Playing vanilla beasties is too challenge (and I've already played enough them years ago) . So, marks are allowed. (But if marks aren't allowed (or opponents start to grumble), well, I just take "old good tactic" - add more (moar!) dudes in units). I like your idea "(Tz) Phoenix gor'd" (I've played shield-gors long ago. They are ok, but for "anvil"(tarpit) I've used the big Ungors mob). With marks they got a "second life". I'll definitely try this, thanks. Let's focus on HE. I've played against 2 types years ago: 1)"offensive" (cav-boing) 2)"defensive" (footslogging mobs + lot of archery/boltthrowers). Second variant bothers me more - he'll just stand and shoot for 5 turns  . And very rare against mix of them and/or lord on dragon/phoenix. Cygors? I'm not a fan of our rare choices at all (don't hit me ). I'd take it in fun friendly games, but not this time. Also Lions/cavalry have good save against it. I'm tired from "hordes and hordes"...but it's probably the only way to play beastmen . I'd like to try something like that: - Tz FlyBull (carpet, DestinyArmor, GW). - Great shaman+some shamans. - Small gor unit (let's say ×10) or two. - About 5-6 units of riders. - About 8 chariots. - Meaty (40) Bestigor unit. Slaanesh on mostly of them of course (besides Besti - they are about 500pts yet). Discipline banner on bestigors, Chalice and Herdstone are mandatory as well. Also I don't take BeastBanner on bsb - he is simple wargor with some defence stuff. The second variant (your with Tz tarpit) is "standart beastie strong list": horde gors+horde bestigors, add the rest to your taste . I'll definitely try this (maybe with some experiments), thanks.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Jan 9, 2022 6:56:40 GMT
Phoenix Gor'd made me smile haha. 😃
I really need to paint my hw/shield Gor.
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Post by knoffles on Jan 9, 2022 10:37:36 GMT
DemolitionMan, good thoughts on the tzeentch marks. I’ll add that in when I get a chance
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Post by Crazy_Dokta on Jan 9, 2022 21:38:45 GMT
knoffles I reread your guide recently and I have one question. What's about Cheasy minotaurs? We have unit of 3 minos (champ upgrade) + Character Bull. Field them 2×2. In combat champ issues challenge (and opponent accept it) => enemy models not be able to attack other besides Character Bull, right? Is there any kind of cheating? (For cheesy cheese we take "1+Ramhornhelm" build on character (and maybe some stuff on champ). And proper target to attack of course)
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jan 9, 2022 22:40:23 GMT
That is correct. In fact, if you field them 2x2, the enemy can only attack either the champion or the character, and it may even be better for the champion not to issue a challenge, since "any extra wounds inflicted upon a champion do not carry over onto the rest of the unit — once the champion is slain, excess wounds are lost" (BRB p. 93). At least, if the Initiative characteristic of all the the enemy models able to attack is the same.
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Post by Crazy_Dokta on Jan 9, 2022 22:44:52 GMT
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Post by Crazy_Dokta on Feb 15, 2022 15:05:00 GMT
Does anyone have experience with big units of razor(pumba)gors? Not solo ones (which are awesome anyway), but let's say units of 6-8 or so. That's right, they are expensive (and there's hardly any room in roster for them) but still. I just never had enough of them  |
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Post by knoffles on Feb 15, 2022 22:00:41 GMT
Does anyone have experience with big units of razor(pumba)gors? Not solo ones (which are awesome anyway), but let's say units of 6-8 or so. That's right, they are expensive (and there's hardly any room in roster for them) but still. I just never had enough of them  It's funny you mention that, as they will definitely be featuring in my next Beast list. I've been toying with the idea for a while and when listening to an older episode of Bad Dice recently, they were talking about a tournament player (Luke Tranton) who often ran multiple units of them in lists. I've included 4 of his lists, 1 from 2013, 2 from 2014 and 1 from 2015 (End times marks). All are quite unusual. He used the below list at the UK Midlands GT in 2014 and came 44th out of 106 players. (It was a closed list event so no magic items are showing). Midlands GT - 2014Beastlord Beastlord (Heavy armour, shield) Bray Shaman (Level 1 Wizard, Lore of Death) Bray Shaman (Level 1 Wizard, Lore of Death) Wargor (Battle Standard Bearer, Heavy armour, shield) 30 Ungor Herd (Full command) 20 Ungor Herd 20 Ungor Herd 10 Ungor Herd 10 Ungor Herd 10 Ungor Herd Tuskgor Chariot Tuskgor Chariot 7 Razorgor Herd 7 Razorgor Herd 7 Razorgor Herd Clash of Swords 2014Beastlord (General); Wizarding Hat, Shield, Heavy Armour, 254 Bray-Shaman; Shard of the Herdstone, Lore of Shadow, 125 Bray-Shaman; Chalice of Dark Rain, Lore of Shadow, 115 Bray-Shaman; Dispel Scroll, Lore of Shadow, 100 Wargor; Battle Standard, Standard of Discipline, Gnarled Hide, Heavy Armour, Shield, 146 Tuskgor Chariot, 80 Tuskgor Chariot, 80 Tuskgor Chariot, 80 Tuskgor Chariot, 80 Tuskgor Chariot, 80 Tuskgor Chariot, 80 20 Ungor Herd, 100 15 Ungor Herd, 75 7 Razorgor Herd, 385 7 Razorgor Herd, 385 Razorgor Chariot, 145 Razorgor Chariot, 145 Razorgor Chariot, 145 Clash of swords 2013Doombull (General); Arabyan Carpet, Gnarled Hide, Charmed Shield, Dragonbane Gem, Sword of Swift Slaying, Heavy Armour, 347 Wargor; Dragonhelm, Shield, Battle Standard, 122 4 Centigor; Ghorros Warhoof, 255 5 Centigor, 125 5 Centigor, 125 5 Centigor, 125 5 Centigor, 125 8 Razorgor Herd, 440 6 Razorgor Herd, 330 6 Razorgor Herd, 330 Ghorgon, 275 Sheffield Slaughter 2015 (End times - Marks)Doombull: Mark of Tzeentch; Heavy Armour; Shield; Ramhorn Helm; Sword of Striking; Talisman of Preservation; Gnarled Hide 363 Doombull: Mark of Tzeentch; Shield; Arabyan Carpet; Armour of Destiny 351 Doombull: Mark of Tzeentch; Armour of Silvered Steel; Sword of Swift Slaying; Talisman of Endurance 345 Great Bray-Shaman: Lore of Beasts; Level 3 Wizard; Dispel Scroll; Dragonbane Gem 230 42 Ungor Herd: Mark of Slaanesh; Champion; Musician; Standard Bearer 267 15 Ungor Herd: Mark of Slaanesh; Standard Bearer 96 15 Ungor Herd: Mark of Slaanesh; Standard Bearer 96 15 Ungor Herd: Mark of Slaanesh; Standard Bearer 96 15 Ungor Herd: Mark of Slaanesh; Standard Bearer 96 6 Razorgor Herd 330 6 Razorgor Herd 330 2,600 points |
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Post by Crazy_Dokta on Feb 15, 2022 22:12:51 GMT
knoffles that's for sure! I thought about it when I was studying that awesome dude' lists (downloaded from BadDice thanks to you) Maybe I'll make my own herds of pumbagors and I'll try them out someday (I have some O&G boars, they are perfect for it). It feels like he really likes our hobby and his army.
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) All right, I guess my opponent isn't idiot, he'll be able to field his units properly and he'll have redirectors/counter-charge units.
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