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Post by livewaaaaagh on Mar 9, 2019 13:55:56 GMT
Normally, on all armies I've played, the general has the highest leadership, so the inspiring presence rules are easy to get. I was playing with a list today that would have 2 heroes and no lords. One of the heroes, a leadership 8 model would be the BSB. As per my understanding, BSBs (except for Slann's) cannot be generals. The next hero is a leadership 6 model. So assuming leadership 6 model becomes the general, how would inspiring presence work? If say, a leadership 7 unit were to need to test. Can they use the leadership 8 of the BSB (even if he's in a different unit)? Or, is their leadership 7 the max they can use?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Mar 9, 2019 14:29:52 GMT
RAW, the General must have the highest Ld, so this case should not have occurred. RAI, it seems to be allowed. That said, the Inspiring Presence rule only allows you to use the General's Ld. Therefore, the unit has to test either on the highest Ld within the unit, or on the General's Ld through Inspiring Presence. Of course, there may be any boni or mali that affect the value of either Ld. It cannot use the BSB's Leadership, unless he himself has joined the unit.
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Post by livewaaaaagh on Mar 9, 2019 14:37:52 GMT
RAW, the General must have the highest Ld, so this case should not have occurred. RAI, it seems to be allowed. That said, the Inspiring Presence rule only allows you to use the General's Ld. Therefore, the unit has to test either on the highest Ld within the unit, or on the General's Ld through Inspiring Presence. Of course, there may be any boni or mali that affect the value of either Ld. It cannot use the BSB's Leadership, unless he himself has joined the unit. Reminder of what RAW and RAI are... ?
So to be more specific: small 1300 pt game. Thinking of bringing Tetto'Eko (ldr 6) and a Scar Veteran (ldr 8). Would I in theory NOT be able to make the Scar Vet the BSB then?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Mar 9, 2019 15:30:20 GMT
BRB p. 107 specifies that the "General is the character in your army with the highest Leadership." Therefore, to have a legal list, no other character can have a higher Ld. That said, in a previous discussion on this forum, the main author of the BRB was contacted and said that this had not been his intent. This is one of the very rare instances where the intent could be established. Nevertheless, that would not have been a guarantee that an eventual FAQ on this matter would have followed his intent.
regarding your question: if you make the Scar veteran the BSB, then other units will not be able to use his Ld. Of course, you could put Tetto'Eko in a unit with the Standard of Discipline, in which case he would have Ld 7.
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Post by midnightfox0083 on Mar 10, 2019 20:04:24 GMT
regarding your question: if you make the Scar veteran the BSB, then other units will not be able to use his Ld.
Unless he's in the unit, of course.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Mar 10, 2019 20:58:16 GMT
That is why I wrote "other units"....
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Post by midnightfox0083 on Mar 11, 2019 1:08:58 GMT
That is why I wrote "other units".... Which can be ambiguously interpreted as Characters are/can be their own units. I was simply clarifying the ambiguous wording.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Mar 11, 2019 8:45:26 GMT
If I am allowed to be my pedantic self: ruleswise, there is no ambiguity there. Of course, a character on his own is a unit. And if he has joined a unit, he becomes part of a single, combined unit. In either case, his unit (whether joined or not) can use his Ld, while other units cannot.
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Post by Horace on Mar 11, 2019 9:09:46 GMT
RAW, the General must have the highest Ld, so this case should not have occurred. RAI, it seems to be allowed. That said, the Inspiring Presence rule only allows you to use the General's Ld. Therefore, the unit has to test either on the highest Ld within the unit, or on the General's Ld through Inspiring Presence. Of course, there may be any boni or mali that affect the value of either Ld. It cannot use the BSB's Leadership, unless he himself has joined the unit. Reminder of what RAW and RAI are... ? So to be more specific: small 1300 pt game. Thinking of bringing Tetto'Eko (ldr 6) and a Scar Veteran (ldr 8). Would I in theory NOT be able to make the Scar Vet the BSB then?
RAI = rules as intended RAW = rules as written According to Matt Ward by selecting someone as your BSB it removes them from the pool of characters for Highest Leadership selection, so yes you could do that. However I will add that this is one of those highly contentious issues and if you are playing with people you do not regularly play with I would point this out before the game
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Post by oldmandan on Jun 30, 2021 20:27:50 GMT
I can't find the specific post about the Standard of discipline. However, am I right in thinking that if the general is leading the unit with the banner he gets an increase in leadership which then benefits units using his inspiring presence rule. My only other question is if the general is in the unit with the standard amd is leading them and do they then benefit from his leadership 🤔
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jun 30, 2021 22:09:52 GMT
Yes, since BRB p. 10 specifies: "If a unit includes models with different Leadership values, always use the one with the highest Leadership - warriors naturally look to the most steadfast of their number for guidance."
And to drive the point home, there is even a (rather superfluous) FAQ:
BRB Official Update Version 1.9, p. 14: Q: If the General is in a unit with the Standard of Discipline will he gain +1 Leadership and then be able to pass it onto his unit (because he is in it) as well as other units in range of the Inspiring Presence special rule? (Reference) A: Yes.
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Post by oldmandan on Jul 1, 2021 11:03:39 GMT
Thanks very much, also this helps me with something I will be posting later on the forums.
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Post by anechrome on Jul 4, 2021 18:56:55 GMT
Sorry, late to the party, but where does it say the BSB cannot be the general?
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Post by strutsagget on Jul 4, 2021 18:59:21 GMT
Sorry, late to the party, but where does it say the BSB cannot be the general? The second section in BRB about bsb: “The Battle Standard Bearer Model A Battle Standard Bearer is a heroic model carrying a particularly impressive banner, and it will be presented as an option in your Warhammer army book. The battle standard is carried by a character model and, unless specified otherwise, the model that carries the battle standard cannot be the General.” Excerpt From WARHAMMER RULEBOOK
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jul 4, 2021 21:42:13 GMT
What strutsagget says (self-evidently) . And as usual, unless specifically stated otherwise. Lizardmen have two stated exemptions: the Lord Mazdamundi, or a Slann Mage-Priest BSB can be both BSB and General.
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