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Post by Allaric on Feb 29, 2016 2:31:46 GMT
Was there a good reason for choosing KoW over 8th edition ? Myself the reasons why I prefer 8th edition , is it is Warhammer , the miniature for the most part are GW and are made for Warhammer , and Warhammer is the game that a lot of fantasy war gamers have been using the last 30 years so it has the most familiarity, and so therefore the rules have been tested and used in tournaments. So why KoW and not any 8th edition , I don't think 8th edition was even considered.
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Post by KevinC on Feb 29, 2016 3:50:49 GMT
Hi Allaric, This is how I understand it (feel free to correct me – anybody – but this is how I witnessed it play out from behind a computer screen): for reasons not completely clear, many well established GT players and event organizers, as well as a large internet cohort of WFB players all decided to jump ship almost immediately after the End Times. Why players felt so comfortable to abandon this great game so fast I don't know. The loudest voices were heard and people followed those voices. As far as 9th Age, it was heavily advertised "come join us and fix the rules to make our own 9th edition." I believe many players saw the 9th Age as an opportunity to get their hands in the development of their favorite army book and didn't want to waste anytime missing that opportunity. Especially if the 9th Age ended up truly replacing Warhammer – people want to get their 2 cents in. At the end of the day some of the most respected and influential GT and WFB players quickly acted with their strong networks to bring along other players and GT organizers to their cause. Thus many GT events immediately embraced either KOW or the 9th Age or both to replace Warhammer. In my eyes they are all traitors and usurpers  (note: I'm saying this in jest, I find it amusing to label them heretics. I mean no offense at all. Kings of War is indeed a cool game and that's great that players are creating their own 9th Age game). |
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Post by Allaric on Feb 29, 2016 5:36:33 GMT
I'm some what confused by what I'm guessing is a purely emotional decision by WFB players to not continue playing 8th edition. From a very simple rational point of view people should know that with 8th and their army's book they have all they need to play warhammer. People that like playing warhammer the game should understand once they buy their army and their rule books that game is their game, they payed their money so they may use copy writed material, having those books entitles them to do what ever they want , game wise , with that game. Player can create their own scenarios , tournaments , multi player games ,etc. I don't see how players overlook that. Once you receive the rules and miniatures GW sold you GW has fulfilled their obligation , what a player decides to do with their purchase shouldn't be based on what GW does after that. These people should understand that games go out of print all the time , it doesn't mean the company that made them doesn't like you, or you have to walk away from the game also. I and the dozen or so people that I play miniature games with hate having to waste money on new edition of games , GW making 8th edition the final edition is a good thing for us that have it, only part is they are no longer printing copies, but people can find copies on the internet. I know that part of the reason not to use 8th edition if not most of it is emotionally based , especially for a tournament , from a tournament point of view you want to use a system that player are familiar with and has been tested in tournaments so GT using KoW and not using 8th doesn't make sense, GT didn't even have it as an option.
As for The Ninth Age , it could be the best thing to happen to Warhammer. If the players can sort out the Rules and Army books then the Warhammer community has the best of options for going forward in the future. For myself and my game club 8th Edition is the default rules set , if T9A fails we can just continue with 8th , if T9A succeeds and remains open and free download and is compatible with 8th edition then that would be the system for future new players. I'm guessing GT went with KoW , because Mantic can offer mini's and rules now and going forward, 8th does that now for current players but not for new players , but I think GT moved to fast away from 8th and could have had 8th as an option. |
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Post by Anton on Feb 29, 2016 6:30:46 GMT
Each tournament will be run under the system the organiser finds best. This TO likes KoW for some reason. 9th Age is still a bit unstable but it's really Tournament Hammer, and it is getting played in lots of tournaments all over the world. But without expansions like Storm of Magic, Triumph and Treachery etc. it can't compete with 8th Edition for campaign/narrative gaming.
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Post by KevinC on Feb 29, 2016 12:58:33 GMT
Allaric, I pretty much agree with every word you said. The main problem was that a few of the predominant GT WFB players ultimately made these decisions and everyone followed their lead. Also, one of the aims of EEFL is to create new army books and expansions. We are working on a Bretonnian book and Stormcast Eternals. We are also working on siege rules for 8th edition, with much more to come. Anton, totally agreed about the expansions. 8th edition had totally awesome expansion books, I'm a hug fan of Storm of Magic, and I really enjoy the End Times series of books. The Forge World books were awesome too.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Feb 29, 2016 13:54:45 GMT
To the OP,
I believe Kings of War offered free pie and punch at their events.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Feb 29, 2016 14:02:02 GMT
I don't love tournament-hammer. I play (played?) in 2 or 3 tourneys each year.
I play cause it IS a VERY efficient way to get in 5 full games of this game I love in one weekend.
And, F'n A, I love this game. Any excuse for 5 games is valid.
I prefer a Saturday where you line up like 200 dudes on one side and 200 dudes on the other side and rumble. No turn limit, and making up "it just feels right" rules is the norm. Bring trolls, bring golems, bring bolt throwers. 3-player with no alliances (or, shifting alliances) is fine. The winner is whoever is left standing after we run out of Bugman's XXX.
The very first time I encountered someone talking about KoW as an alternative to WFB, they described it thusly:
"It's like Warhammer, but better suited for a weekend tournament and games under 2 hours".
The person meant this as a positive.
I took it as a negative.
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Post by vulcan on Feb 29, 2016 14:55:00 GMT
The problem is, as much as I love 8th, even I have to admit it's hardly a balanced game. All the major (and most of the minor) tournaments had extensive comp packs to try and balance it better just to make the competition a little less unfair.
KOW doesn't have that issue. 9th Age is trying desperately to fix that issue. GW... didn't even care, and left 8th in a heck of a state for tournament play (Out of 15 armies, 12 were upgraded to 8th, two had 7th edition army books that were pretty broken, and one had an army book from early SIXTH edition).
And all the End Times BS didn't help.
Another reason GT may have chosen KoW was manufacturer support. I'm not sure if KoW offers tournament packs like GW used to, but if they do it's a BIG inducement to use their rules over the unsupported 8th Edition (or even 9th Age) rules.
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That Guy
New Member
Stay dangerous, it's safe out there...
Posts: 34
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Post by That Guy on Feb 29, 2016 14:58:47 GMT
It's because the way of the world is always about the "in" thing. KoW is a new/current system, same thing with 9th age that it's a updated WfB it's like warhammer 40k and when they introduced super heavies and gargantuan creatures as part of the main game and meta. Which for me destroyed my relationship with GW and 40k cause I am not "that guy" who will blow/waste $300 on a overly large model just to stand a chance to at least make it to the end of a game.
But most people move on like a herd of cattle to be followers of what's in trend or "popular".
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Feb 29, 2016 15:03:09 GMT
Mooo
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Post by roughtimes on Feb 29, 2016 23:25:36 GMT
Interesting topic. I think there's a lot going on here...
8th edition had been around for a while and I think there were a decent chunk of the player base that was ready for something new to reinvigorate the scene. I can imagine that it's fairly easy to burn out on the game when playing a high volume of tournament games. Unfortunately, AOS didn't do the job, which left alternate games or fan made ninth their best options.
I also wonder if some players were at the end of their rope with GW. Even the most ardent GW fanboy has to admit that the death of WFB probably wasn't handled in the best way. Players are angry/upset with GW's actions and creating their own version of the game is a way to voice this displeasure.
I honestly can't blame anyone for moving away from 8th. I see the appeal to ninth age and there is a part of me that wants nothing to do with GW and to instead support a different game like kow.
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Post by roughtimes on Feb 29, 2016 23:27:10 GMT
I don't love tournament-hammer. I play (played?) in 2 or 3 tourneys each year. I play cause it IS a VERY efficient way to get in 5 full games of this game I love in one weekend. And, F'n A, I love this game. Any excuse for 5 games is valid. I prefer a Saturday where you line up like 200 dudes on one side and 200 dudes on the other side and rumble. No turn limit, and making up "it just feels right" rules is the norm. Bring trolls, bring golems, bring bolt throwers. 3-player with no alliances (or, shifting alliances) is fine. The winner is whoever is left standing after we run out of Bugman's XXX. The very first time I encountered someone talking about KoW as an alternative to WFB, they described it thusly: "It's like Warhammer, but better suited for a weekend tournament and games under 2 hours". The person meant this as a positive. I took it as a negative. Please don't ban me guys but I sorta like the idea of a two hour game. So tough to carve out huge chunks of gaming time these days. |
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Mar 1, 2016 1:09:06 GMT
You aren't wrong, practicality versus preference.
Number of 2 hour games I have played in the past 12 months: 16
Number of 2-4 hour games I have played in the past 12 months: 3
Number of 6+ hour games I have played in the past 12 months: 0
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Post by KevinC on Mar 1, 2016 2:41:07 GMT
Interesting topic. I think there's a lot going on here... 8th edition had been around for a while and I think there were a decent chunk of the player base that was ready for something new to reinvigorate the scene. I can imagine that it's fairly easy to burn out on the game when playing a high volume of tournament games. Unfortunately, AOS didn't do the job, which left alternate games or fan made ninth their best options. I also wonder if some players were at the end of their rope with GW. Even the most ardent GW fanboy has to admit that the death of WFB probably wasn't handled in the best way. Players are angry/upset with GW's actions and creating their own version of the game is a way to voice this displeasure. I honestly can't blame anyone for moving away from 8th. I see the appeal to ninth age and there is a part of me that wants nothing to do with GW and to instead support a different game like kow. I think roughtimes is correct in many ways... |
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Post by grandmasterwang on Mar 1, 2016 6:49:42 GMT
A large part of it is that KOW and 9th Age are currently 'supported'. For a lot of tournament goers this is a really big deal.
Regarding 8th Edition tournaments i think the last 3 End Times books left a bad taste in a lot of gamers mouths and the destruction of the '8th' world helped push them towards other avenues such as KOW.
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(note: I'm saying this in jest, I find it amusing to label them heretics. I mean no offense at all. Kings of War is indeed a cool game and that's great that players are creating their own 9th Age game).
