|
|
Post by frozenfood on May 9, 2016 11:23:50 GMT
Silly question but why would Orcs help gw with copyright? Other companies still make orks?
If they made blue, six armed creatures with two heads, now that they could protect
|
|
|
|
Post by KevinC on May 9, 2016 11:41:01 GMT
It seem, especially in recent years, that GW wants to make everything IP. The most obvious example it the paint range, which is 100% GW IP names now. AOS was an opportunity to change names like Elves, Goblins, and Dwarfs into their own IP names.
|
|
|
|
Post by Allaric on May 9, 2016 17:55:01 GMT
Haha, my Facebook and Miniwargaming comments were really for you saying the game had no popularity when in fact it does and at a growing rate with the many great new releases. Too true about the tourney scene being down and financials putting too heavy a hand on the business side of fantasy instead of the gaming side. Kirby may have saved the company going under several times but he's certainly put a dent in it's fanbase that Rountree will have to fix.  (he's doing great so far) Not certain about that 15% drop since I keep hearing it was only a 2% drop, in anycase GW's certainly had worse drops with the older fantasy. www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/136515-Games-Workshop-Profits-Down-24-CEO-HappyGW certainly could've handled the AoS release better to keep the majority of the fanbase happy. The change to a new setting was needed to justify the I.P changes and the culling of the ranges for easier management but the initial introduction was far too blunt. If AoS started in the time of Sigmar's pantheon where the mortal defenders held back the hordes of chaos and the Stormcast were a later release then the transition would've been better. Allowing 8th as a viable alternative (as in you could freely play it in stores and get the armybook downloads) would've been exceptional. People respond much better when presented with options. The initial exclusion of points was understandable in the attempt for friendlier competitions but today's CoD minded society (especially the US) needs limitations to how big a munchkin they can be. If it can be abused then it will be. Anyway, I didn't really want to start a big debate. (Can't stand the things) I just wanted to put some more points on why GW did what it did with the change to AoS. You've certainly nailed several important points of why the change but the tough financial years and overall dropping popularity in the games and bad economy should also be accounted for. Ok I'll take your comments one by one. The stuff about facebook and fans polls - totally irrelevant in a conversation about real world matters because both fans and company employees can abuse such things , companies routinely have their employees logon and make favorable "mouse clicks" and comments as part of their job , fans do similar bogus "mouse clicks" both create false impressions ergo any such poll is meaningless when talking about real world stuff.
This comment "Not certain about that 15% drop since I keep hearing it was only a 2% drop, in any case GW's certainly had worse drops with the older fantasy."
First the link you posted referred to total sales , that's a very big and mixed pie chart for GW , it didn't separate out profits from miniatures alone like the one I quoted and posted a link to, and the relevant point being made is that , is there an indication that the change to the new AoS do anything to help profits or not. Also just as a side note all those years previous when WFB 8th edition ("older fantasy") was current they were the most profitable years for GW to date.
Next I don't see why you refer to WFB as "older fantasy" instead of by it's real name Warhammer Fantasy Battle 8th Edition or at least WFB ? Try to remember that the truth is that only 10 months ago Warhammer Fantasy Battle 8th Edition was the only current warhammer fantasy game (and technically still is) and no one called 8th edition "older fantasy" 10 months ago and most of the people that do say that now are the AoS fans trying to tell 8th edition people to move on. When I see terms like this used I like to remind people that 6th edition was current for over 6 years before it was updated with 7th edition and that these forums remind everyone that you can play WFB as long as you want especially Warhammer Fantasy Battle 8th edition which is only 5 1/2 years young.
So let me wrap this up with some really good news for all the fans of Warhammer Fantasy Battle , I'll start first with a quote from GW's CEO from the Annual Report from 2015 , and then follow with quotes from the 2014 Annual Report remember the annual report comes out in the month of July of that year so it would cover findings over the previous calendar year and earlier.
From the 2015 Annual Report this quote.
Translated , GW wants to charge as much as they can for their models , not what they are worth but as high as they can go as a prestige factor in collecting over priced plastic.
And from the previous 2014 Annual Report these quotes.
In short , GW basically lost some cases involving IP protection in 2012 and 2013 and needs an easier game IP that it can protect in courts , ie unique models and names , hence AoS , so ending WFB and creating AoS wasn't about sales it was about GW high price per miniature business model, the downward price pressure from competition and attempting to maintain market share via IP law suits. Read on.
This last part he is either totally bull shitting here or he has no clue what is coming in the future of collecting models. Read on, I will explain.
This my Warhammer Fantasy Battle friends is what GW is truly worried about 3-D printing and maintaining a high price per model in that environment. The RRP , recommended retail price, that GW sets is part of the companies current business strategy which is high price per models , it's kind of a prestige factor to make customers think they are getting the best simply because its the most expensive , it actually works on a lot of people.
3-D printing is also part of the reason GW created AoS. It's looking like AoS is kind of an experiment in very unique IP creation and protection , since GW has learned it can be hard to protect your IP as well as costly ESPECIALLY when you are looking at 100's if not 1000's of infringement cases with 3D printing.
As 3D printing decreases in cost as well as gains in popularity Wargamers will be able to either order custom made miniatures or make their own customized miniature , imagine either ordering a custom made Hero or Lord model riding whatever monster you wish with your own features on it too or creating your own on your home 3D printer and in any material you want. With 3D printing Artist will be able to set up their own boutique model businesses , no need for large companies , individual artist and small boutique model companies will cater to model collectors, it has already started. Individual owners of 3D printers can purchase the customized artist created program upload it to their own 3D printing system and print the models, so in the case of home use of 3D printing there is no shipping of models just a software download , do you think GW is worried about every individual artist starting their own fantasy model 3D software design studio , you darn right they are. This is a big problem for GW more than the other small miniature companies like Mantic. Small companies can still make money selling lots of rank and file miniatures with their lower cost structure and lower profit margins, but not GW. GW counts on a high price per model especially the BIG character models the ones that bring the most profits and these are the same models that are most threatened by Artist with their own 3D model software business.
This all ties in with GW decision to move away from the Warhammer Fantasy Battle World because this world is a world that any model manufacture and any fantasy Artist can create models for and players to play in and that is awesome news for fans of WFB !! So keep all your WFB world books because you will be able to play with more and more models of different designs than you ever imagined possible. Even now and going into the future it isn't who makes the models that is important it is the Fantasy World that is MOST important and the Warhammer Fantasy Battle World is the biggest , richest , and greatest fantasy wargame world created.
|
|
|
|
Post by grandmasterwang on May 10, 2016 2:17:34 GMT
I quite enjoyed that last post.
Silly thing about GW's current 'high rrp business strategy' is that this strategy is what has been a huge factor in their decline and fall.
GW ×could× if they wanted sell their minis cheaper than Mantic and completely change their business model to attract a higher volume of sales. Due to economies of scale they actually have the capability to be one of the cheapest manufacturers out there. Alas they price a lot of their stuff as if they were a boutique low volume miniature designer like Mierce miniatures.
We shall see what the future holds.
|
|
|
|
Post by frozenfood on May 10, 2016 12:30:04 GMT
I don't think that calling them Aelfs will stop Mantic from making Elfin or Elves or Aelflyns. Creating their own monsters like that crazy new orc monster...now that is a way to get creative and protect your investments.
If only there were some alternate universes in which all strategies could be tested.
And then in the end we could see who was right.
|
|
|
|
Post by Allaric on May 10, 2016 14:22:28 GMT
I don't think that calling them Aelfs will stop Mantic from making Elfin or Elves or Aelflyns. Creating their own monsters like that crazy new orc monster...now that is a way to get creative and protect your investments. If only there were some alternate universes in which all strategies could be tested. And then in the end we could see who was right. GW changing the names makes it so they hold the rights to them and claim they are unique to their products, anyone else can make an elf or dwarf , etc. as long as they call it an elf, or dwarf and it doesnt look just like GW's version of it. |
|
|
|
Post by dannytee on May 14, 2016 9:07:34 GMT
Yes, this is kind of how I feel about some of the AoS releases. |
|
|
|
Post by Josh on Aug 1, 2016 14:49:51 GMT
All this is interesting because GW has dropped from $9.00/share to $6.50/share over the last 1 year and the stock is down 15% over the past 60 days. Their stock is trading in the pink slips and they are giving an absurd unsustainable 10% dividend. If you look at their total revenue and total expenses, GW doesn't make any money. GW will be lucky to be afloat in 2 years. AOS has been around for a year now and GW's trajectory looks worse than it was pre-AoS.
|
|
|
|
Post by Baronthehumbled on Aug 4, 2016 5:14:34 GMT
Not sure you can contribute the drop to AoS. The Orcs & Sylvaneth releases along with the Silver Tower major successes definitely helped GW's profits.
That's not even mentioning the massive popularity of the summer campaign and general's handbook which have brought in tons of players and have numerous accounts of prior KoW and 9th groups converting to AoS because of it.
The problem is most likely 40K. The profits made by FW, which is constantly making new 40k models, are better than GW's whose put 40k on hold.
GW needs to fix 40k in the upcoming 8th edition so that the profits don't belong solely to players wanting shiny new toys but in playing a accessible and compelling game.
|
|
|
|
Post by Horace on Aug 4, 2016 8:48:17 GMT
It seems like an accumulation of AoS not selling well at all (especially first half of the financial year) and 40k not picking up any of the slack. This has resulted in more of the same for GW ie another year of falling sales.
AoS definitely seems to have picked up in recent months but considering the amount of support it has received throughout this year I think it is fairly poor where it has ended up (especially since in effect WFB sales were still contributing a reasonable amount to this financial year). Will be interesting to see if the new generals book points thing gets it any more traction in 16-17.
Interesting to observe anyway, I have absolutely 0 interest in playing AoS. I just wish they didn't tank the whole 8th range and force me to other sources for models I still want.
|
|
|
|
Post by Baronthehumbled on Aug 4, 2016 9:17:09 GMT
That's in some debate actually. Some insider sources like Lady Atia have stated that sales from things like the "last chance" events were very small and hardly moved. Which makes sense when so many army deals were already on Ebay and
oldhammer players had a grudge not to support GW.
As for tanking all the 8th range, I imagine you mean certain model lines you were interested in as there's still quite a bit of older models on the website.
|
|
|
|
Post by Horace on Aug 4, 2016 10:43:32 GMT
They moved very fast actually, the stock may have been low though in the first place though. I know through many personal acquaintances (plus many online accounts) people are/were still buying units to finish their armies off from 8th. It does not all have to have come from last chance stuff. This will obviously decrease as time goes on but lets not forget it is a financial year going back to April 15.
I think you are being naive if you are suggesting a decent portion of the 8th range remains. Loads of it has gone and more will be on the chopping block shortly
|
|
|
|
Post by Baronthehumbled on Aug 4, 2016 20:12:01 GMT
Haha, I suppose that is being a little naive but "tanking the whole range" sounded like there was nothing left.(by the by, if you need alternative models go to the 9th age forum. Great info there for other miniatures)
If by chopping block you mean eventually replaced with updated models to fit the AoS aesthetic then yes, the current ranges will be gone in the future.
|
|
|
|
Post by Please... on Aug 5, 2016 16:05:24 GMT
That's in some debate actually. Some insider sources like Lady Atia have stated that sales from things like the "last chance" events were very small and hardly moved. Lady Atia is a not ''super partes'' she seems to be wanting to make WFB appear like the village idiot while AoS the best thing ever ever in whole universe. ''WFB sales were lower than GW water pots, duh!''(plausible quote)  And probably for GW was easier to give all faults to the product WFB than themselves. |
|
|
|
Post by Baronthehumbled on Aug 5, 2016 21:44:57 GMT
That's more of an opinion than facts so I can't really comment on that. Wfb did have faults but it's true that was all due to GW's lack of attention to it and Kirby's reign of focusing on collectors instead of gamers. If it had gotten more love and attention then it wouldn't have ended up as the poor 15% profit where the paints and brushes sold as well as the models did. |
|
(he's doing great so far)
