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Post by grandmasterwang on Aug 6, 2016 5:30:06 GMT
That's in some debate actually. Some insider sources like Lady Atia have stated that sales from things like the "last chance" events were very small and hardly moved. Which makes sense when so many army deals were already on Ebay and oldhammer players had a grudge not to support GW. As for tanking all the 8th range, I imagine you mean certain model lines you were interested in as there's still quite a bit of older models on the website. Did Lady Atia actually say that about the "Last chance to buy" items? Link? Normally she is pretty accurate so it would be surprising to me if she lied/was so wrong about the Last chance to buy WFB items not moving? The fact that the Last chance to buy items disappeared so quickly (ie, "sorry they have now sold out") worldwide proves that they moved incredibly quickly across the board... or is she saying GW lied about that? If WFB had been given the prolonged effort and dedication (start collecting boxes, boardgame expansions etc) that AOS currently is then there is little doubt it would have sold better and been more profitable than AOS currently is. Alas Kirby was atrociously terrible at his job but thankfully his successor has a much better idea how to run the company and GW have put a really strong effort to stop the AoS ship from sinking. I still think WFB proper will return in some form in the future. I mean it saved their previous financial year with Total War royalties and the interest is clearly still there. I was right when i predicted points and a more tournament orientated ruleset would come for AOS... lets hope i'm right about WFB too.
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Post by Baronthehumbled on Aug 6, 2016 8:04:18 GMT
Ah, I paraphrased it wrongly, it did indeed move fast but contributed little due to the warehouses not having alot of the old stock. My mistake. war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/963#disqus_threadI'm still under the stance that the Bretonnian models sold fast due to Ebay scalpers.(The certainty of the discontinued line and skyrocketing prices for the models after the last chance sale make me dubious to anything else) As for WFB returning, it might after five years or so and done in the manner of 30k as an side game that focuses on fantasy's history. It definitely won't be soon because the trolls, ragers and "I'm never coming back to GW so I must let them know that by posting about it on their FB" whiners will be in full force to attack the AoS community. The reintroduction of points proved that. Best hopes for it will be reintroduced after Total war warhammer is completed and maybe done by Forge World as they are already handling classic models like Blood Bowl teams. Wouldn't count on it being rank-and-file rules, though.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Aug 6, 2016 9:27:53 GMT
Ah, I paraphrased it wrongly, it did indeed move fast but contributed little due to the warehouses not having alot of the old stock. My mistake. war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/963#disqus_threadI'm still under the stance that the Bretonnian models sold fast due to Ebay scalpers.(The certainty of the discontinued line and skyrocketing prices for the models after the last chance sale make me dubious to anything else) As for WFB returning, it might after five years or so and done in the manner of 30k as an side game that focuses on fantasy's history. It definitely won't be soon because the trolls, ragers and "I'm never coming back to GW so I must let them know that by posting about it on their FB" whiners will be in full force to attack the AoS community. The reintroduction of points proved that. Best hopes for it will be reintroduced after Total war warhammer is completed and maybe done by Forge World as they are already handling classic models like Blood Bowl teams. Wouldn't count on it being rank-and-file rules, though. I didn't see anything in that article about "Last Chance sales" but you corrected what you meant anyway so all good. That makes a lot more sense. Yeah WFB will not return for some time imo but it will be back for sure. Most likely a new box set ala Betrayal at Calth set during the reign of Karl Franz. Basically another reboot/retcon like with Storm of Chaos. The reign of Karl Franz is the date of the official 'Warhammer setting' and everything after is lorewise hypothetical as we have seen with previous retcons. I don't expect GW to ever fully retcon AOS but instead to include some time link/travel shicanery to explain it. I could actually see GW ending the whole AOS storyline with a tzeentch/Sigmar time jump whereby Sigmar jumps back to the 'Old World' but with the knowledge he has gained from the AOS. 5 years seems like a reasonable timeframe. AoS im sure has at least 2 strong years of releases yet with upcoming campaigns/factions. If GW are smart they will tie a WFB box set release in with the third Total Warhammer game which will probably come out in about 5 years. Regarding the report, given the sheer number of AOS releases including the Start Collecting boxes it would have been a disaster if they weren't outselling WFB considering the difference in release rate. I think AOS actually had more releases than 30/40k last year and i can't ever recall that happening with Fantasy. It is interesting that they acknowledge their poor rollout of AOS. It's also telling that GW are quick to praise their "hit"s of which AOS is not one. Im pretty happy game wise. All my battles take place in the old world in one form or another and i hope Gw keeps releasing creative new kits for AOS which i can use for WFB.... i just wish they were cheaper... I've always seen the End Times and AOS as one big storyline hypothetical so
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Post by grandmasterwang on Aug 6, 2016 9:29:25 GMT
Ah, I paraphrased it wrongly, it did indeed move fast but contributed little due to the warehouses not having alot of the old stock. My mistake. war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/963#disqus_threadI'm still under the stance that the Bretonnian models sold fast due to Ebay scalpers.(The certainty of the discontinued line and skyrocketing prices for the models after the last chance sale make me dubious to anything else) As for WFB returning, it might after five years or so and done in the manner of 30k as an side game that focuses on fantasy's history. It definitely won't be soon because the trolls, ragers and "I'm never coming back to GW so I must let them know that by posting about it on their FB" whiners will be in full force to attack the AoS community. The reintroduction of points proved that. Best hopes for it will be reintroduced after Total war warhammer is completed and maybe done by Forge World as they are already handling classic models like Blood Bowl teams. Wouldn't count on it being rank-and-file rules, though. What did the reintroduction of points prove regarding trolls/AOS haters/ragers?
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Post by Baronthehumbled on Aug 6, 2016 10:12:08 GMT
Well the AoS facebook got hit with alot of their flak while Warseer and Dakkadakka also saw a rise in it. Mostly it was from groups thinking the points were a cry out by GW to bring them back into the game instead of their actual purpose in making pick-up games easier and answering what the fans were asking for to help their games. Basically it was this: Trolls- "Haha, see how stupid GW is, they ended up giving us points despite preaching how great the game was without them!" Ragers- "Ha, GW couldn't resist putting in another flawed system designed to sell their expensive models and make this dumb game officially pay-to-win." Whiners- "Too late GW, I already moved on to better pastures of Mantic/9th/etc and this said attempt won't win me back." I could go on but you get the gist. The point is that bringing WFB back too early is just going to open alot of fresh wounds and will hurt both communities. Edit: Whoops, didn't see your above comment on the article and WFB. The article didn't mention the warehouses but Atia stated it in the comments. GW confirmed they have the next AoS releases and ready planned for the next 4-5 years which is why I put in that time frame. Very possible explanation for a WFB release, it'd certainly be nice to see fantasy treated as a multiverse where any outcomes could happen. I'm a fan of seeing where that Boris Todbringer as emperor plot would've went. (Doubt the Tzeentch time hop thing though, that would make one timeline more official than the others as opposed to anything could happen.) Agreed on a poor roll out for AoS, few could argue it's start up wasn't a bad beginning. I among others just put it down to the tail end of Kirby's decisions, more focus on flashy models to appease collectors rather than plot and natural blending with old fantasy to help fans enjoy the new models and setting. If AoS had started during the age of mortals, when the old races built kingdoms across the realms and Sigmar's pantheon was created, and progressed to the current setting then things would've been much different.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Aug 7, 2016 6:43:10 GMT
Well the AoS facebook got hit with alot of their flak while Warseer and Dakkadakka also saw a rise in it. Mostly it was from groups thinking the points were a cry out by GW to bring them back into the game instead of their actual purpose in making pick-up games easier and answering what the fans were asking for to help their games. Basically it was this: Trolls- "Haha, see how stupid GW is, they ended up giving us points despite preaching how great the game was without them!" Ragers- "Ha, GW couldn't resist putting in another flawed system designed to sell their expensive models and make this dumb game officially pay-to-win." Whiners- "Too late GW, I already moved on to better pastures of Mantic/9th/etc and this said attempt won't win me back." I could go on but you get the gist. The point is that bringing WFB back too early is just going to open alot of fresh wounds and will hurt both communities. Edit: Whoops, didn't see your above comment on the article and WFB. The article didn't mention the warehouses but Atia stated it in the comments. GW confirmed they have the next AoS releases and ready planned for the next 4-5 years which is why I put in that time frame. Very possible explanation for a WFB release, it'd certainly be nice to see fantasy treated as a multiverse where any outcomes could happen. I'm a fan of seeing where that Boris Todbringer as emperor plot would've went. (Doubt the Tzeentch time hop thing though, that would make one timeline more official than the others as opposed to anything could happen.) Agreed on a poor roll out for AoS, few could argue it's start up wasn't a bad beginning. I among others just put it down to the tail end of Kirby's decisions, more focus on flashy models to appease collectors rather than plot and natural blending with old fantasy to help fans enjoy the new models and setting. If AoS had started during the age of mortals, when the old races built kingdoms across the realms and Sigmar's pantheon was created, and progressed to the current setting then things would've been much different. Nice response and thanks for the explanation. The worse thing about AOS was the way it has divided what i would once have considered a close knit community (fantasy hobbyists/wargamers). With Kirby mostly out of the picture i think GW's future looks a lot brighter.
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Post by roughtimes on Aug 12, 2016 19:15:22 GMT
Yeah, game and let game. A hobby is all about enjoyment. Anyway, just to add some things to the change to AoS: Plans were made to have a 9th and new Bret starter box but was cancelled due to business and financial issues. Several GW employees even wrote that they had alot of great ideas to continue the old system but it just wasn't possible without the company taking a massive hit. AoS was started in 2013, the bad economy and trying to sbuport a game that gave 15% income (1% per army, space marine sells alone covered that) wasn't possible and needed to be streamlined. Just stating the facts. Also, I hear GW stores support 8th edition players again. So there's that. I sorta posted about this in the other thread, but why were fantasy sales so bad? Is 40k that much cooler?
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Post by vulcan on Aug 12, 2016 23:26:16 GMT
There are lots of theories - unbalanced armies, awkward rules, rules changed just to sell models, ridiculously overpriced models, etc. But I don't think anyone really knows for sure.
It's for damn sure GW never knew, or they would have done something effective to change it.
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Post by roughtimes on Aug 13, 2016 0:14:50 GMT
Yeah, but some of those issues are just as bad in 40k
My guesses
40k has a great aesthetic and would definitely appeal to kids more than fantasy.
I know GW is notorious for borrowing ideas, but 40k is probably a bit more original than fantasy. WFB is a combo of historical inspiration, Lord of the rings, and Michael Moorcock fantasy.
It seems 40k could require less models in general. The thought have having to buy a horde of empire great swords makes me cry. So, basically the price issue.
And, you're probably correct about the fantasy rules being a little clunky in comparison to 40k, which is less in-depth.
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Post by Please... on Aug 13, 2016 17:07:07 GMT
There are lots of theories - unbalanced armies, awkward rules, rules changed just to sell models, ridiculously overpriced models, etc. But I don't think anyone really knows for sure. It's for damn sure GW never knew, or they would have done something effective to change it. There's a fact: it's GW fault and well they'd not fire themselves lol,
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Post by Baronthehumbled on Aug 13, 2016 19:05:39 GMT
40k's popularity is really staggering when compared to fantasy's. Reddit really shows that by any 40k posts (which is the majority of posts) always receiving an immediate 100 likes or higher while the fantasy posts takes days to get that many likes. Though chaos is highly popular despite the setting. What's funny is the amount of 40k players wanting an AoS system or switching over to it to get away from 40k's complex system. There's already been several fan-made 40k rule-sets made that just modified the AoS system to include things like vehicles and drop pods.
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Post by roughtimes on Aug 13, 2016 19:35:19 GMT
A faster easy to play system is very appealing when you have a time crunch
Too bad aos doesn't do it for me
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Post by Baronthehumbled on Aug 13, 2016 21:00:24 GMT
That's fine. That's why projects like EEFL are so important, so everyone can enjoy their hobby.
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Post by TheREALricksalamone on Aug 13, 2016 23:13:44 GMT
I wish GW refined/rereleased their Mordheim/Skirmish game system. While I agree that a lack of new players was a problem for GW, I feel like they should have kept is, the old school basement players happy while adding attracting new gamers. I see so many nerds at the local shops jumping into all of these steampunk/fantasy skirmish games. Malifaux, frostgrave, bolt action (WW2), warmahordes, etc. They could've kept the old world and allowed people to play skirmish and squad based games within it. Especially with Total War...people are now hungry for that IP. I'm just disappointed. My only hope is that someone over at GW, a true fan on their staff, realized what they lost and brings back the old world.
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Post by KevinC on Aug 20, 2016 14:02:17 GMT
Error.
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