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Post by mottdon on May 30, 2021 12:12:42 GMT
With regards to Tomb Kings, I feel the following changes are necessary: - In the lore attribute, models with the Large Target special rule (as opposed to the Animated Construct special rule, to allow Ushabti to be healed D3+1 wounds) may only heal 1 wound in this way per successful casting
- Tomb Kings units should be able to march if they are within 12” of the Hierophant (not the general because that’s just a copy of Vampire Counts)
- If the Heirophant is slain, if there are other friendly Liche Priests or Liche High Priests on the battlefield, the Priest with the highest Wizard level may take over as the Hierophant (if there are multiple Priests with the same Wizard level, you may choose)
- Banner of the Undying Legion should automatically grant the unit the ability to gain D6+2 models from every buff spell, rather than being a bound spell
- Ushabti should be T5 (they’re stone statues, and it’s currently stupid that some big fat Ghouls are tougher than them)
- All animated constructs should be immune to Poisoned attacks (they have no blood, so poison shouldn’t have an effect on them)
I like these changes right here. This and KevinC's spell additions. |
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Post by knoffles on May 30, 2021 17:18:26 GMT
With regards to Tomb Kings, I feel the following changes are necessary: - In the lore attribute, models with the Large Target special rule (as opposed to the Animated Construct special rule, to allow Ushabti to be healed D3+1 wounds) may only heal 1 wound in this way per successful casting
- Tomb Kings units should be able to march if they are within 12” of the Hierophant (not the general because that’s just a copy of Vampire Counts)
- If the Heirophant is slain, if there are other friendly Liche Priests or Liche High Priests on the battlefield, the Priest with the highest Wizard level may take over as the Hierophant (if there are multiple Priests with the same Wizard level, you may choose)
- Banner of the Undying Legion should automatically grant the unit the ability to gain D6+2 models from every buff spell, rather than being a bound spell
- Ushabti should be T5 (they’re stone statues, and it’s currently stupid that some big fat Ghouls are tougher than them)
- All animated constructs should be immune to Poisoned attacks (they have no blood, so poison shouldn’t have an effect on them)
I like these changes right here. This and KevinC's spell additions. Completely agree but to bring it in line with VC I’d make it so that they can only take over if they also had lore of nekr (whatever it’s called...brain freeze) |
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Post by mattbro on May 31, 2021 5:20:28 GMT
Yeah, I just remember from 6th edition Fergal in the GW Aberdeen saying TK were only playable at 2000 points plus. Yeah, 6th was a really solid book. Good synergy and very strong, but given how they worked, you needed multiple priests and mummies for the army to function smoothly, which you literally couldn't have in small games. I got my butt kicked by my skaven and dark elf friends, until our armies started getting up to the 2000pt+ size range. Suddenly the tables turned and they were almost never able to beat my tks again |
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Post by mattbro on May 31, 2021 20:45:42 GMT
With regards to Tomb Kings, I feel the following changes are necessary: - In the lore attribute, models with the Large Target special rule (as opposed to the Animated Construct special rule, to allow Ushabti to be healed D3+1 wounds) may only heal 1 wound in this way per successful casting
- Tomb Kings units should be able to march if they are within 12” of the Hierophant (not the general because that’s just a copy of Vampire Counts)
- If the Heirophant is slain, if there are other friendly Liche Priests or Liche High Priests on the battlefield, the Priest with the highest Wizard level may take over as the Hierophant (if there are multiple Priests with the same Wizard level, you may choose)
- Banner of the Undying Legion should automatically grant the unit the ability to gain D6+2 models from every buff spell, rather than being a bound spell
- Ushabti should be T5 (they’re stone statues, and it’s currently stupid that some big fat Ghouls are tougher than them)
- All animated constructs should be immune to Poisoned attacks (they have no blood, so poison shouldn’t have an effect on them)
The only thing I disagree with there is being able to pass th Hierophant on to someone else. I feel like if the tks had been designed well and ran well, they'd be a very powerful force and one that would probably need a significant weakness to balance it out. I always thought it was a bit cheeky when they did that with the vampires, they basically erased their one real weakness. |
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Post by imrillion on Jun 5, 2021 9:52:28 GMT
Yea bro, WAP’s great, I use the army books in my 8th Ed games. Mathias is a regular on the podcast and we are all building WAP armies with him here drive.google.com/drive/folders/1vRpSabA5KKjaT3ZUwsoX66mFkuEyxJoDObvs start with the announcement lol. This months editorial talks about the WAP as a spiritual successor to WFB My entire Albion army for 8th Ed uses the WAP army book |
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Post by oldmandan on Jul 3, 2021 8:25:16 GMT
What about T6 for Ushabti? Then play test them at that and note which match ups they win and lose, if they win all or majority then T5 is probably the answer.
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Post by bluesquarehammer on Jul 30, 2021 11:53:09 GMT
I think you all know my opinion on WAP. Give me ALL the WAP I can handle  |
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Post by lordofskullpass on Jul 30, 2021 15:31:44 GMT
What about T6 for Ushabti? Then play test them at that and note which match ups they win and lose, if they win all or majority then T5 is probably the answer. Certainly a possibility, I'm concerned that might be too tough for Monstrous Infantry as only monsters have characteristic values of 6 or above, but it's worth playtesting. |
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Post by bluesquarehammer on Jul 30, 2021 16:02:20 GMT
Been thinking about Da Boyz GT while making a couple army lists. Truthfully, just not very excited about 8th edition and some of the rule mechanics  been too spoiled by WAP |
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Post by oldmandan on Aug 1, 2021 16:24:47 GMT
Hmm, yeah I see what you're saying, I'll speak with my mate he worked out the whole points to win ration ages back. I'll see what he says see if there is other possibilities that we could look at.
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Post by dweurgrrr on Dec 7, 2021 13:53:32 GMT
Personally, I found 9th edition WAP to be a refreshing rehash of 8th edition.
I started playing at Christmas of '93, and I still regularly play multiple different editions, especially 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th Ed.
I think 6 is my favorite, but thats just nostalgia, because my Bretons were destroying at tournaments, and I was playing a lot of them. But so far I've played WAP with my Wood Elves, my Brettonians, my Orcs and Goblins, and my Empire armies, and I've really enjoyed all of them.
That doesn't mean I don't play 8th a lot though. I think its a good system and people everywhere play it so when I travel I can usually find a game on Reddit or Facebook. But I honestly think that WAP is the better game. I like the magic systems better, I like the charge rules, and I think the game flows better than 8th.
Im currently buying/printing/building a Chaos Dwarf army, and im really looking forward to playing with it. (Which is why I joined here after finding it).
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Post by lordofskullpass on Dec 10, 2021 9:59:21 GMT
Had more of a detailed look at the changes WAP did to 8th to turn it into their 9th Edition, and to me it looks a mixed bag - better than I thought it was but not perfect. On one hand there’s some good stuff like Unit Strength returning to affect Psychology, charging being more meaningful again, the Horde rule being kicked out, Cavalry having Impact Hits (1) and Wizards being able to channel a number of times equal to their Wizard level, but also some bad stuff like retaining the mostly generic Magic Items approach from 8th, and not only keeping the re-roll to hit rolls from Always Strikes First but also forcing Always Strikes Last units to re-roll successful hit rolls. That is a huge nerf to Great Weapon Troops.
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Post by mottdon on Dec 10, 2021 12:10:51 GMT
Wow, that IS a huge nerf to ASL!
😤 I don't like it.
Personally, I've never minded the horde rule. I think people make a much bigger deal out of it than it is. Don't like it? Just hit that massive target with a couple of artillery templates. Boom. No more horde. And highly offensive things like Witch Elves, Savage Orcs, etc. have virtually no defense, so a few templates can practically wipe out that huge, scary EXPENSIVE unit! Don't have artillery? Chaff 'em up!
Besides, I enjoy getting SOME sort of "reward" for painting and purchasing 30-50 minis! Nice to see them be so effective!
Sorry about the horde rule rant, but I feel like it's an excuse people use to hate on 8th and that's all it is - an excuse.
Now, things like cavalry getting some charging bonus, wizards getting to channel their level, etc. are fine, but very minor tweeks at best. Simple houserule. Sucks for tournament players, but that's about it. And these days, there aren't just a ton of 8th ed tournaments being hosted. Those that are, can set the rules for themselves anyway, because it'll be a local thing and have no connection to a larger network.
My two cents.
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Yvain
Full Member
Posts: 112
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Post by Yvain on Dec 10, 2021 12:52:48 GMT
I don't think the horde rule is bad. It really does two things:
1. Gives you 10 extra attacks. This is nice but there is nothing really special about this. You pay for those attacks.
2. Lets you stack buffs on your main unit.
This is actually where it really shines. A FTS spell on a horde or a Razor can really bump up their power, but you are really still only gaining 10 extra attacks which also need to hit and wound. Its not game breaking decisive over at standard 5 or 6 rank unit. However, once you get a way to get multiple buffs on is when it gets wacky. A DE cauldron w/WE getting frenzy bonus, regen save, and then having something Razor is a wood chipper. Even so, most of those were just fine and that is what arty and nuke spells were for like you suggest.
As typical with 8th it is specific army book units that screw things up (BoTW Ally WL come to mind) Or units that abuse steadfast.
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Post by adso13 on Dec 11, 2021 5:53:31 GMT
I haven't read too deeply into the ruleset, but I watched Squarehammer's review of the changes and decided it was too different. I've always been of the opinion that 8th only really needed a few tweaks to be just about perfect, and WAP 9th is like 9th Age 2.0 (I think) where they started departing too far from the formula.
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been too spoiled by WAP 
