|
Post by strutsagget on Sept 21, 2021 6:09:18 GMT
I have a couple questions/comments in regards to this comp system: Upfront I'll say I appreciate what it's trying to do, and see that it's basically trying to be Swedish Comp Lite, but my issue is that I don't see how it makes any effort to actually balance play? And it seems like it is really only useful for tournament play since the score only applies to final standings. I'm also not sure how it really makes a practical difference in the end? For example, let's say I bring a Tomb Kings list that ends up around, I dunno, +5 or something. I'm not sure how that +5 is really going to help me much if I go 1-5 over the course of the entire tournament because I'm still, ya know, playing TK. So instead of placing 24th or something, maybe my +5 score brings me up to 16th (or 18th or 13th or however the math works). Which, ok that's nice, but it still wouldn't bring you anywhere close to placing competitively like you could with a meta army/list unless that modifier REALLY swings placement (which also wouldn't feel great if you place something like 9th or 10th and suddenly jump into 1st or 2nd place after losing 50% of your matches). These numbers are all just examples, so please don't take them literally. I'm sure you understand the spirit of what I'm trying to say in each example. I guess my main issue is that the primary function seems to be affecting final placement in a tournament, but unless that modifier moves standings considerably that it's still probably best to bring the most competitive army and list that you can to maximize your actual game wins. I'm certainly not saying I'm right in this assessment, by the way, and would love to hear your thoughts/elaborations around my own. I'd also love to hear how you think this comp could be used in a more casual meta for friendly games (I'm guessing by just saying something like 'ok, everyone bring a list that's 0-5', for example). Thanks! Don’t think you are using the comp the right way. It usually used together with victory points? But I have not used this one myself so might be wrong
|
|
|
Post by strutsagget on Sept 21, 2021 6:12:14 GMT
[mention]knoffles [/mention] think we need a post how to use a basic comp pack. Explaining the 10/10 system. :/
And elaborate on how the tournament score is calculated.
|
|
smog
New Member
Posts: 2
|
Post by smog on Sept 21, 2021 8:11:07 GMT
Don’t think you are using the comp the right way. It usually used together with victory points? But I have not used this one myself so might be wrong I may not be! But according to the post, your comp score in this system has nothing to do with victory points. Your total comp score will be used in two ways: 1. Your first game opponent will not be random but will be matched to you based on your comp score; so if I have a -5 list I will be playing someone in game 1 with as close a comp score as possible. (Swiss pairing will match opponents after round 1) 2. At the end of the tournament your overall comp score will be added or subtracted as appropriate from your tournament score to give you your final position. But still very possible (re: likely) that I'm missing something.
|
|
|
Post by knoffles on Sept 21, 2021 10:13:49 GMT
I have a couple questions/comments in regards to this comp system: Upfront I'll say I appreciate what it's trying to do, and see that it's basically trying to be Swedish Comp Lite, but my issue is that I don't see how it makes any effort to actually balance play? And it seems like it is really only useful for tournament play since the score only applies to final standings. I'm also not sure how it really makes a practical difference in the end? For example, let's say I bring a Tomb Kings list that ends up around, I dunno, +5 or something. I'm not sure how that +5 is really going to help me much if I go 1-5 over the course of the entire tournament because I'm still, ya know, playing TK. So instead of placing 24th or something, maybe my +5 score brings me up to 16th (or 18th or 13th or however the math works). Which, ok that's nice, but it still wouldn't bring you anywhere close to placing competitively like you could with a meta army/list unless that modifier REALLY swings placement (which also wouldn't feel great if you place something like 9th or 10th and suddenly jump into 1st or 2nd place after losing 50% of your matches). These numbers are all just examples, so please don't take them literally. I'm sure you understand the spirit of what I'm trying to say in each example. I guess my main issue is that the primary function seems to be affecting final placement in a tournament, but unless that modifier moves standings considerably that it's still probably best to bring the most competitive army and list that you can to maximize your actual game wins. I'm certainly not saying I'm right in this assessment, by the way, and would love to hear your thoughts/elaborations around my own. I'd also love to hear how you think this comp could be used in a more casual meta for friendly games (I'm guessing by just saying something like 'ok, everyone bring a list that's 0-5', for example). Thanks! Good questions & thoughts and you are correct with your assumptions. I also thought it was a swedish comp lite, which is not a bad thing to simplify that system. You are also right that it was put together just for tournament play. It doesn't try to balance things (the guys who put it together wanted to allow people to bring whatever toys they wanted), it instead just gives or takes away tournament points for taking certain options. You are again correct that in the scheme of things, the difference between taking say, a -5 list or +5 list, probably won't make a huge difference, especially as most of the events are normal over 2 days, with 5 games (so you could get a max of 100 tournament points just from the games - excluding any potential sportsmanship or painting scores). Chatting to one of the guys who seems to always place 4th (much to his annoyance), his view is the sweet spot is normally a 0 to -5 list. That way it doesn't impact your overall standing too much. From a friendly game point of view, your thoughts are how i've seen and used this (or even Swedish) before. It's probably more useful if playing a random though like everything you could run a +10 list that is still pretty solid.
|
|
|
Post by strutsagget on Sept 21, 2021 11:37:44 GMT
Don’t think you are using the comp the right way. It usually used together with victory points? But I have not used this one myself so might be wrong I may not be! But according to the post, your comp score in this system has nothing to do with victory points. Your total comp score will be used in two ways: 1. Your first game opponent will not be random but will be matched to you based on your comp score; so if I have a -5 list I will be playing someone in game 1 with as close a comp score as possible. (Swiss pairing will match opponents after round 1) 2. At the end of the tournament your overall comp score will be added or subtracted as appropriate from your tournament score to give you your final position. But still very possible (re: likely) that I'm missing something. But you don’t subtract your position in the ladder. From every game you get points usually bases on a 10/10 ratio where you get 10/10 on a perfect draw and 20-0 on a massive landslide. You then remove comp score from that, at least that is the usual way.
|
|
|
Post by knoffles on Sept 29, 2021 22:23:59 GMT
With this, you normally just add/subtract the list points at the end of the competition, so if you scored 70pts over the course of the tournament and had a +5 list, you’d get 75pts in total. If you are playing a one off game then the list score could massively swing the result of the game.
|
|
|
Post by strutsagget on Sept 30, 2021 9:46:08 GMT
With this, you normally just add/subtract the list points at the end of the competition, so if you scored 70pts over the course of the tournament and had a +5 list, you’d get 75pts in total. If you are playing a one off game then the list score could massively swing the result of the game. Yes but how do you calculate the 70 points?
|
|
|
Post by knoffles on Oct 5, 2021 21:38:51 GMT
With this, you normally just add/subtract the list points at the end of the competition, so if you scored 70pts over the course of the tournament and had a +5 list, you’d get 75pts in total. If you are playing a one off game then the list score could massively swing the result of the game. Yes but how do you calculate the 70 points? the 70pts was an example but in this example, it’s made up of the total score of the player from their games using the 20-0 score per game.
|
|
|
Post by strutsagget on Oct 7, 2021 6:17:44 GMT
Yes but how do you calculate the 70 points? the 70pts was an example but in this example, it’s made up of the total score of the player from their games using the 20-0 score per game. Yes I know. What I am trying to say is that we have no documentation on how to calculate the 20-0 score system. Or have I missed it? As the comp score uses it we probably should have it here too.
|
|
|
Post by knoffles on Oct 8, 2021 19:59:50 GMT
|
|
|
Post by fantacap on Nov 30, 2021 11:26:31 GMT
I've been looking at this for Triple Crown 2022. What would people do with Beastmen? I can easily get a +10 but it involves a Gorthor General and Ungrol Four Horn , i might just end up with 10 TP's overall.
|
|
|
Post by knoffles on Dec 16, 2021 13:51:09 GMT
I've been looking at this for Triple Crown 2022. What would people do with Beastmen? I can easily get a +10 but it involves a Gorthor General and Ungrol Four Horn , i might just end up with 10 TP's overall. . Sorry for the late reply. This is a link to a list I was using to give people practice games for the Cardiff crusade. It was based off the triple crown pack but had 50% lords/heroes. For the marks of chaos, everything had MoN with the exception of the Doombull that had MoT. The Bestigors always go in a 6 wide bus with the Beastlord in them. The BSB and GBS in with the Gor (this is fairly standard for my set up). It didn’t do too badly in those practice games. I basically drew with Luke Blaxill, who I believe came 4th in the overall standings at Cardiff (he normally comes 4th in all the tournaments, much to his annoyance 😂). www.dropbox.com/s/24vmv36j40i1nxs/Cardiff%20-%203%20lord%20-%202500.pdf?dl=0In terms of general Beastmen in the comp, I’d not worry too much about the comp score and just take what you want. The free marks help but against a fair few lists, you’ll always be at a disadvantage. As such just play to your list strengths. I’ll take a proper look at the beasts section in a bit bit dear god, don’t take ungrol 😂
|
|
|
Post by knoffles on Dec 16, 2021 17:41:43 GMT
Using the comp pack (at least the 6.5 version, the current one may have slightly changed) I’d probably be looking at running around a -2 or -3 list for a fairly competitive standard, non herdstone build, utilising the standard of discipline and at least one unit over the 450pt value (Bestigor). I think that’s a good marker to aim for.
|
|