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Post by DiscoQing on Jul 11, 2021 20:46:13 GMT
Hey y'all,
Quick one I think-
I'm in a challenge against a solo monster - in subsequent rounds, can I hurt said solo monster with impact hits from a chariot charge (outside of the challenge)?
Thanks in advance!
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Post by knoffles on Jul 11, 2021 21:12:25 GMT
How are you in a challenge against a solo monster, as isn’t it only characters/champions that can be in a challenge (bar the odd unit exceptions such as hammerers etc)?
As such the chariot should be able to charge in and cause impact hits.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jul 11, 2021 21:53:07 GMT
There are a number of monsters that are characters (for instance, various Daemon Lords). And since the participants of a challenge "cannot be attacked by any other model for that round of close combat" (BRB p. 102), any impact hits will be resolved against the rest of the unit. If there are no other models in the unit, the Impact Hits will be lost.
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Post by DiscoQing on Jul 12, 2021 0:29:12 GMT
There are a number of monsters that are characters (for instance, various Daemon Lords). And since the participants of a challenge "cannot be attacked by any other model for that round of close combat" (BRB p. 102), any impact hits will be resolved against the rest of the unit. If there are no other models in the unit, the Impact Hits will be lost. The reason my opponent thinks that the Impact Hits would work in a challenge such as this, is because they are distributed as per shooting, albeit in the combat phase. Would a mangler squig, stone thrower shot or a Comet of Cassandora passing through the challenge cause hits/wounds? |
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Post by knoffles on Jul 12, 2021 7:40:25 GMT
There are a number of monsters that are characters (for instance, various Daemon Lords). And since the participants of a challenge "cannot be attacked by any other model for that round of close combat" (BRB p. 102), any impact hits will be resolved against the rest of the unit. If there are no other models in the unit, the Impact Hits will be lost. I stand corrected 😁 |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jul 12, 2021 8:07:22 GMT
Yes. It is limited to CC, attacks in other phases can affect models in a challenge (in as far as those attacks can be targeted against units in CC). The fact that Impact Hits are distributed like Shooting means just that: they are distributed like Shooting, but they made in CC and are expressis verbis close combat attacks. In any case, models in a challenge cannot be attacked during CC - that includes attacks made in CC, which are not CC attacks themselves.
Speaking of which, there is another badly worded, highly confusing and, indeed, superfluous FAQ:
Official Update Version 1.9, p.8:
Q: Do special rules that can inflict hits in close combat, such as Stomp and Breath Weapons, count as close combat attacks? (p42)
A: No they count as an unusual attack and will be distributed as a shooting attack.
However, that only applies to how they are distributed, because the BRB specifically states that they are in fact CC attacks.
BRB p. 67: Breath weapon. Close Combat Attacks. If the model with this special rule is in close combat, it can use the Breath Weapon to make an additional close combat attack at its own Initiative (in either player's turn).
BRB p. 76: Stomp: A model with this special rule can make a Stomp in addition to its other close combat attacks.
[Italics mine]
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Post by anechrome on Jul 16, 2021 16:35:58 GMT
Interesting, and sorry for hogging the thread, but can a character with a breathweapon that is also in a challenge cause wounds on other models than the one he is fighting in the challenge?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jul 16, 2021 18:08:05 GMT
No. As already quoted above "These two characters must direct all of their attacks against each other — they cannot be attacked by any other model for that round of close combat" (BRB. p. 102).
This is confirmed (somewhat superfluously) by BRB Official Update Version 1.9, p.11:
Q: If a model with a Breath Weapon, Stomp or Thunderstomp is in a challenge, can these attacks hit models not in the challenge?(p102)
A: No.
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Post by anechrome on Jul 16, 2021 19:21:09 GMT
Cool, thx!
So am I correct in assuming that if a unit with full command, BSB and max rankbonus that charges a lord on dragon will win that combat by simply declaring a challenge with the unit champ??
Lord gets 1 wound on the champ + max 5 wounds overkill
Unit gets 0 wounds, 3 ranks, banner, bsb, charge and then wins by musician.
Or does the thunderstomps go into the unit at the end because the challenge ends when the unit champ dies?
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Post by Sweet_Totally on Jul 16, 2021 19:56:18 GMT
Or does the thunderstomps go into the unit at the end because the challenge ends when the unit champ dies? Based on the rules quoted by FvonSigmaringen in the comment before yours I would say no. That's how my group have been playing it atleast. |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jul 16, 2021 20:18:07 GMT
BRB p. 103 (Challenges and mounts): "If the opponent is slain before all of a model's attacks are made (because a competitor and his mount strike at different Initiative steps, for example) then any excess Attacks are lost and cannot be directed against other models."
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Post by strutsagget on Jul 17, 2021 7:08:56 GMT
Charging into a unit with full combat res with a single character is a risky move.
That’s why combo charging with something that can accept the challenge is a good tactics if you think you might flee if you loose combat.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jul 17, 2021 7:27:14 GMT
It is the other way around: in anechrome 's scenario, the single character is being charged. Although he would take the Break test without negative modifiers, there is at least a chance that he may fail his Break test and could be caught. Of course, the next round of close combat, advantage shifts to the single character - at least in theory. As Gaius Julius Caesar said: Fortuna, quae plurimum potest cum in reliquis rebus tum praecipue in bello, parvis momentis magnas rerum commutationes efficit (Fortune, which has a great deal of power in other matters but especially in war, can bring about great changes in a situation through very slight forces.) |
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Post by DiscoQing on Jul 17, 2021 8:19:54 GMT
On the subject of challenges...
Eg, a Doombull charges a unit with a champion in it.
If my impact hits kill the champion - does the Doombull still get to roll attacks for overkill?
I've been playing this as you don't get to.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jul 17, 2021 9:28:45 GMT
Impact Hits cannot kill the champion (provided that there are enough R&F models), because "Impact Hits are resolved at the very beginning of the close combat, before challenges are issued and attacks of any other kind are made" (BRB p.71), and "Unless a champion is slain by a direct attack, then he must be the last rank and file model to be removed as a casualty" (BRB p. 93).
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