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Post by hivefleetmanticore on Nov 6, 2023 19:05:13 GMT
Looks like the old wedge formation from WFB3 is back. In those days, if the wedge charged another unit, you fought a round of combat between the front model of the wedge and the first rank of the enemy unit. If the front model won (so it was important to put a character there), the same happened with the second ranks, and so on. If a wedge won all the rounds, you could potentially force a unit to rout, as if the wedge had driven through the unit and scattered it. Good times (strokes beard). I don't know if that made it into later editions of WFB, as I didn't play again until 8th, apart from the odd game of 4th. I suspect those rules won't get resurrected, however.  |
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Post by lordofskullpass on Nov 6, 2023 19:30:59 GMT
Looks like the old wedge formation from WFB3 is back. In those days, if the wedge charged another unit, you fought a round of combat between the front model of the wedge and the first rank of the enemy unit. If the front model won (so it was important to put a character there), the same happened with the second ranks, and so on. If a wedge won all the rounds, you could potentially force a unit to rout, as if the wedge had driven through the unit and scattered it. Good times (strokes beard). I don't know if that made it into later editions of WFB, as I didn't play again until 8th, apart from the odd game of 4th. I suspect those rules won't get resurrected, however. It's only back for Bretonnians - in 5th Edition the Bretonnians' Lance formation was a resurrection of the 3rd Edition Wedge formation, and it's this version of the Lance GW has brought in for them in TOW. Though it's only now we've seen the new rules for March Columns that we know why they did this. |
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Post by TyrrenAzureblade on Nov 6, 2023 21:37:51 GMT
The one thing I'm unclear on is the difference between Open Order and Skirmishers. Are skirmishers a form of Open Order formation, or a completely different formation type? The illustration shows both Closed and Open Order formations look the same, but the wording they've used confused me. Maybe they're just a special rule attributed to specific types of units?
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Post by thegoat on Nov 6, 2023 22:02:33 GMT
The one thing I'm unclear on is the difference between Open Order and Skirmishers. Are skirmishers a form of Open Order formation, or a completely different formation type? The illustration shows both Closed and Open Order formations look the same, but the wording they've used confused me. Maybe they're just a special rule attributed to specific types of units? I'm curious about that too. Wild speculation, open order moves like fast cavalry, but has a lower maximum rank bonus. |
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Post by thegoat on Nov 6, 2023 22:03:48 GMT
Looks like the old wedge formation from WFB3 is back. In those days, if the wedge charged another unit, you fought a round of combat between the front model of the wedge and the first rank of the enemy unit. If the front model won (so it was important to put a character there), the same happened with the second ranks, and so on. If a wedge won all the rounds, you could potentially force a unit to rout, as if the wedge had driven through the unit and scattered it. Good times (strokes beard). I don't know if that made it into later editions of WFB, as I didn't play again until 8th, apart from the odd game of 4th. I suspect those rules won't get resurrected, however. It's only back for Bretonnians - in 5th Edition the Bretonnians' Lance formation was a resurrection of the 3rd Edition Wedge formation, and it's this version of the Lance GW has brought in for them in TOW. Though it's only now we've seen the new rules for March Columns that we know why they did this. Am I missing something? What is the connection between lance formation and march column? |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Nov 6, 2023 22:39:05 GMT
The one thing I'm unclear on is the difference between Open Order and Skirmishers. Are skirmishers a form of Open Order formation, or a completely different formation type? The illustration shows both Closed and Open Order formations look the same, but the wording they've used confused me. Maybe they're just a special rule attributed to specific types of units? They should be different special rules. Open Order units still fight in ranks, so, optically, they probably look the same as Close Order units, hence they are mentioned in the same picture. The reference "they’re faster, more agile, and handle tough terrain better" seems to indicate no or fewer terrain restrictions (for instance, something like Dangerous Terrain tests or Swiftstride). |
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Post by TyrrenAzureblade on Nov 6, 2023 22:50:53 GMT
The one thing I'm unclear on is the difference between Open Order and Skirmishers. Are skirmishers a form of Open Order formation, or a completely different formation type? The illustration shows both Closed and Open Order formations look the same, but the wording they've used confused me. Maybe they're just a special rule attributed to specific types of units? I'm curious about that too. Wild speculation, open order moves like fast cavalry, but has a lower maximum rank bonus. Yeah, after re-reading it a little closer, it seems like it's just a different way for certain units that rank up to behave on the field. I wish they expanded on this a bit more, but maybe they'll shed more light on it in the follow up articles, especially if they have different effects on close combat. |
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Post by rustynumber on Nov 6, 2023 23:05:21 GMT
I wouldn't mind seeing a limit to the number of skirmish units, in a game about ranked battle it's silly if your army is mainly skirmishers (outside specific scenarios)
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Post by thegoat on Nov 6, 2023 23:40:46 GMT
I wouldn't mind seeing a limit to the number of skirmish units, in a game about ranked battle it's silly if your army is mainly skirmishers (outside specific scenarios) Restrictions like that should be included in the individual army books. But historically that is where the balance in GW's games typically breakdown. |
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Post by KevinC on Nov 6, 2023 23:44:15 GMT
What is the different between Close Order and Open Order?
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Post by vulcan on Nov 7, 2023 2:14:14 GMT
All very interesting! Marching columns and reduced charge ranges (compared to WFB 8E) are interesting changes/additions. Its worth noting, that pre-measure is a thing and swiftstride cavalry get an extra dice roll. Isnt this a leanning towards a bit towards cavalryhammer? Depends on how lethal charges are. If we've gone back to 'wipe the fighting line to prevent return attacks', then yes. If we're still using 'step up' (or more properly, 'remove casualties from the back') then not as much. |
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Post by rustynumber on Nov 7, 2023 8:36:33 GMT
What is the different between Close Order and Open Order? I assume they might be trying rules to differentiate between infantry like helf spears who would be an ordered shield wall, and orc boyz all charging in wildly even if they're moved in a block. |
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Post by lordofskullpass on Nov 7, 2023 8:37:28 GMT
It's only back for Bretonnians - in 5th Edition the Bretonnians' Lance formation was a resurrection of the 3rd Edition Wedge formation, and it's this version of the Lance GW has brought in for them in TOW. Though it's only now we've seen the new rules for March Columns that we know why they did this. Am I missing something? What is the connection between lance formation and march column? From 6th-8th Edition Bretonnian Lances involved forming your knights into 3-wide columns - in TOW this would now be classed as a March Column, so GW had to bring back the old 5th Edition 'Wedge' Lance formation to differentiate between the two. |
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Post by lordofskullpass on Nov 7, 2023 8:39:46 GMT
The one thing I'm unclear on is the difference between Open Order and Skirmishers. Are skirmishers a form of Open Order formation, or a completely different formation type? The illustration shows both Closed and Open Order formations look the same, but the wording they've used confused me. Maybe they're just a special rule attributed to specific types of units? They should be different special rules. Open Order units still fight in ranks, so, optically, they probably look the same as Close Order units, hence they are mentioned in the same picture. The reference "they’re faster, more agile, and handle tough terrain better" seems to indicate no or fewer terrain restrictions (for instance, something like Dangerous Terrain tests or Swiftstride). Agreed, and different armies should have different levels of access to Close Order and Open Order units - Beastmen should have pretty much universal access to Open Order as a homage to the 6th Edition Raiders rule, whereas disciplined armies like Dwarfs and High Elves should be predominantly Closed Order, with just the occasional outlying unit like Rangers, possibly Slayers and possibly White Lions being Open Order. |
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Post by lordofskullpass on Nov 7, 2023 8:51:43 GMT
I was most impressed with this article, it has pretty much everything I was asking for in a revised Warhammer Fantasy Movement Phase - the introduction of Closed Order vs Open Order, March Columns providing a new tactical choice, the correct Skirmisher and Failed Charge rules returning from pre-8th, random charge distances surviving from 8th but toned down slightly, Counter Charging as a new charge reaction. The only downside is pre-measuring surviving  but I'll just ignore that when playing at home (apart from the admittedly required use of it when determining when Frenzy units have to test to avoid going berserk), as I've always done when playing 8th. Most exciting stuff! What's more, it looks as if TOW articles are now going to become a weekly event ( AT LAST!). I look forward to next Monday's article on the Shooting Phase. |
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but I'll just ignore that when playing at home (apart from the admittedly required use of it when determining when Frenzy units have to test to avoid going berserk), as I've always done when playing 8th.