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Post by herjan1987 on Nov 13, 2023 14:58:43 GMT
Back in 4th edition, the base game only had simple magic rules. The real magic rules with all the college specific spells came out in an expansion box set. i wonder it they are planning something similar. We might not get the full magic lores until the the story progresses to the great war against Chaos and Teclis helps found the colleges of magic. These are my thoughts aswell. Also they might have budget constrains. We will see what going to happen, but its going to be an interesting ride. |
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Post by herjan1987 on Nov 13, 2023 15:13:44 GMT
Also you saw that there is a "Flee and shoot" rule, my bet its all over the place on the Wood elf units, which isnt bad its a nice buff to the treehuggers with long bow buffs aswell.
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Post by lordofskullpass on Nov 13, 2023 15:39:17 GMT
The biggest thing though is, once again, magic. The two spells previewed do make the Tomb King spell previewed earlier look particularly bad now which is sad, and it appears as though there are no more Eight Lores of Magic, and potentially just one Lore of Battle Magic (though Magic Lores could have more than six spells now to compensate). Similarly it's concerning that the Lore of Daemonology might mean there's no more God-Specific Chaos Lores. That's certainly going to take some fluff out of the game. Back in 4th edition, the base game only had simple magic rules. The real magic rules with all the college specific spells came out in an expansion box set. i wonder it they are planning something similar. We might not get the full magic lores until the the story progresses to the great war against Chaos and Teclis helps found the colleges of magic. The thing is though, the 8 Winds of Magic have always existed in the Warhammer World since the beginning of time, and simply founding the 8 Colleges of Magic in the Empire wouldn't have just summoned them into being, they would simply have unlocked them for Imperial and Bretonnian use. The article did mention that Battle Magic was the main lore usable by human wizards, so perhaps the 8 Lores may still be usable by the more enlightened races like Lizardmen (in their PDF), High Elves, Wood Elves and Tomb Kings. |
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Post by Sweet_Totally on Nov 13, 2023 16:10:29 GMT
My thinking is that Battle Magic and Lore of Daemonology might be reserved for the generic Empire Wizard and Chaos Sorcerer respectively, with different unique lores availible for special types of magicians such as a lore of Tzeentch for Sorcerers of Tzeentch.
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Post by thegoat on Nov 13, 2023 16:49:59 GMT
Back in 4th edition, the base game only had simple magic rules. The real magic rules with all the college specific spells came out in an expansion box set. i wonder it they are planning something similar. We might not get the full magic lores until the the story progresses to the great war against Chaos and Teclis helps found the colleges of magic. The thing is though, the 8 Winds of Magic have always existed in the Warhammer World since the beginning of time, and simply founding the 8 Colleges of Magic in the Empire wouldn't have just summoned them into being, they would simply have unlocked them for Imperial and Bretonnian use. The article did mention that Battle Magic was the main lore usable by human wizards, so perhaps the 8 Lores may still be usable by the more enlightened races like Lizardmen (in their PDF), High Elves, Wood Elves and Tomb Kings. Yup, you are 100% correct from a fluff angle. My speculation was from more of a marketing angle with a shoehorned in fluffy excuse based around the founding of the colleges of magic. I was really just spitballing. If my guess turns out to be correct, I'll be quite surprised. |
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Post by lordofskullpass on Nov 13, 2023 17:04:24 GMT
My thinking is that Battle Magic and Lore of Daemonology might be reserved for the generic Empire Wizard and Chaos Sorcerer respectively, with different unique lores availible for special types of magicians such as a lore of Tzeentch for Sorcerers of Tzeentch. Now that makes more sense, hopefully that's the case. Essentially Battle Magic and Daemonology function as the lores for generic Empire and Chaos Undivided respectively. |
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Post by lordofskullpass on Nov 13, 2023 17:07:40 GMT
Also you saw that there is a "Flee and shoot" rule, my bet its all over the place on the Wood elf units, which isnt bad its a nice buff to the treehuggers with long bow buffs aswell. Yes indeed, it would certainly make sense to give this rule to a lot of Wood Elf units as that's their main way of fighting, as well as being a good revision of the rules for Fast Cavalry to properly replicate the Parthian Shot. Give this to a lot of Wood Elf units and give Open Order to a lot of Beastmen units and I'll be happy, by 8th Edition these two factions largely became overshadowed by their more popular cousins (High and Dark Elves and Warriors of Chaos and Orcs and Goblins respectively), and it'd be great if they could be revitalised with playstyles more unique to them. |
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Post by herjan1987 on Nov 13, 2023 17:38:19 GMT
Also you saw that there is a "Flee and shoot" rule, my bet its all over the place on the Wood elf units, which isnt bad its a nice buff to the treehuggers with long bow buffs aswell. Yes indeed, it would certainly make sense to give this rule to a lot of Wood Elf units as that's their main way of fighting, as well as being a good revision of the rules for Fast Cavalry to properly replicate the Parthian Shot. Give this to a lot of Wood Elf units and give Open Order to a lot of Beastmen units and I'll be happy, by 8th Edition these two factions largely became overshadowed by their more popular cousins (High and Dark Elves and Warriors of Chaos and Orcs and Goblins respectively), and it'd be great if they could be revitalised with playstyles more unique to them. End times Beastmen Ambush rule to Beastmen. Maybe 360 shooting angle to Glade riders, Glade Guard or just Waywatchers. So many possebilities to make a great game. |
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Post by TyrrenAzureblade on Nov 13, 2023 17:48:13 GMT
I’m willing to bet Armor Bane means -1 to armor at close range judging by the long bow lore entry. It’s interesting to see AP - for some of the rules. Is that there to clarify there’s no armor reduction (S4 traditionally reduced armor by 1), or might there be a modifier to AP associated with something else like distance or wizard level?
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Post by lordofskullpass on Nov 13, 2023 17:57:17 GMT
Yes indeed, it would certainly make sense to give this rule to a lot of Wood Elf units as that's their main way of fighting, as well as being a good revision of the rules for Fast Cavalry to properly replicate the Parthian Shot. Give this to a lot of Wood Elf units and give Open Order to a lot of Beastmen units and I'll be happy, by 8th Edition these two factions largely became overshadowed by their more popular cousins (High and Dark Elves and Warriors of Chaos and Orcs and Goblins respectively), and it'd be great if they could be revitalised with playstyles more unique to them. End times Beastmen Ambush rule to Beastmen. Maybe 360 shooting angle to Glade riders, Glade Guard or just Waywatchers. So many possebilities to make a great game. The End Times Beastmen Ambush rule was just a tweak of the 7th Edition one, and neither are necessary if Ambushers is going to return. With regards to Beastmen and Ambushing, they should simply have an improved version of Ambushers if that rule is going to survive from 8th (which it likely will) - in my own 8th book, for instance, Beastmen can march after arriving through Ambushers where no other faction can. |
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Post by mottdon on Nov 13, 2023 18:58:03 GMT
Yeah, okay, pretty close to what 8th shooting was. I don't care for moving back to only firing from one rank, because that simply feels like hitting an already extremely weak phase with a nerf bat. Plink off two or three models per phase, then get to what actually matters. I've always been of the opinion that the shooting phase needed a boost to its effectiveness, not letting a little air out of its tires.
As far as the AP goes, Wood Elves had that and I don't think that it made much of a difference. A very minor note.
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Post by Mr Blank on Nov 13, 2023 19:04:03 GMT
I'm liking that d3+1 damage on the screaming skull instead of d6, hopefully cannons and other war machines have the same rule so they can put consistent damage onto dragons etc without 1-shotting them.
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Post by thegoat on Nov 13, 2023 21:21:48 GMT
I’m willing to bet Armor Bane means -1 to armor at close range judging by the long bow lore entry. It’s interesting to see AP - for some of the rules. Is that there to clarify there’s no armor reduction (S4 traditionally reduced armor by 1), or might there be a modifier to AP associated with something else like distance or wizard level? "AP -" means it has no effect on the armor roll. That is the convention used in 40K since 3rd edition. |
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Post by Sweet_Totally on Nov 13, 2023 23:10:01 GMT
I don't care for moving back to only firing from one rank, because that simply feels like hitting an already extremely weak phase with a nerf bat. Plink off two or three models per phase, then get to what actually matters. I've always been of the opinion that the shooting phase needed a boost to its effectiveness, not letting a little air out of its tires. I wouldn't be surprised if more experienced/elite ranged units such as Dwarf Quarrelers and Nuln Gunners would still be able to shoot from the second rank to represent them being properly drilled enough to fire while kneeling or whatnot. If not then I reckon they will try to go for bows being the massed but less effective choice and crossbows/guns the quality over quantity-option. |
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Post by thegoat on Nov 14, 2023 1:25:22 GMT
I don't care for moving back to only firing from one rank, because that simply feels like hitting an already extremely weak phase with a nerf bat. Plink off two or three models per phase, then get to what actually matters. I've always been of the opinion that the shooting phase needed a boost to its effectiveness, not letting a little air out of its tires. I wouldn't be surprised if more experienced/elite ranged units such as Dwarf Quarrelers and Nuln Gunners would still be able to shoot from the second rank to represent them being properly drilled enough to fire while kneeling or whatnot. If not then I reckon they will try to go for bows being the massed but less effective choice and crossbows/guns the quality over quantity-option. I assume Bows of all sizes will have the Volley Fire rule and it will allow some number of models in back ranks to fire. I doubt any other ranked missile troops will fire in more than one rank. Though there is some precedent. As I recall, High Elf arches used to get to shoot in two ranks, back in the day. I really wish they had switched up the -1 to hit when shooting at long range for a +1 to hit when shooting at short range. Basic missile weapon troops have never been competitive outside of specific scenarios or factions with special rules that buff the hell out of them. Yes, Wood Elves, I'm talking about you. Also remember 25mm is the smallest base size. So most ten man units of missile troops are now two inches wider (single rank of ten guys wide), making them more unwieldy to position and maneuver on the battlefield. |
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