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Post by KevinC on Dec 25, 2023 19:39:04 GMT
I was talking about the end of forums, not of WFB. The fact that people bought so much and so quickly anything that came out during ET only shows that people were hungry for new content and, for once, they were actually getting it. What happened after is a different story. And I always failed to understand why people stop playing and it took them a few years to resume. -------I was upset. That is why this forum came to be. For whatever reason, WFB abandoned the WFB game at the drop of a hat. Never understood that. They couldn't wait to play Kings of War, the 9th Age or whatever. The WFB community immediately became fractured. I've continue to play WFB since the End Times and have been having so much fun!
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Post by mottdon on Dec 26, 2023 4:55:31 GMT
I didn't mind the ET books other than the way it ended things and how many of my favorite characters were so suddenly cut down. But I do remember the feeling of impending doom I had when the GW rumors started before the ET books were introduced. Practically everyone was saying, "Naw, they'll never end fantasy! This is just another grimdark scenario, setting up some big release.". That was one reason I was so ready to head over here when Rick announced on W-E that this forum was starting up. Still to this day, I don't regret a minute.
Just because GW has decided to introduce yet another iteration of the game I love, it doesn't change my core dedication to the hobby. Hopefully, TOW will be a great edition and players will remember what the community used to be like and will come back to sites like this to share their renewed or newfound love of the game with others of like minds. Time will tell.
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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Dec 26, 2023 5:51:49 GMT
Also, if you are a WFB fan, I don't understand how you cannot like the End Times campaign books (other than the fact that the world was destroyed). The books were so well written and there was a thousand easter eggs referencing lore from WFB 2nd edition through 8 edition. And even 40K got some nods. It was amazing. I've found that haters of the End Times don't know WFB lore that well (which is fine). I've been a hug fan of the WFB narrative since the late 80s, and the End Times is a treasure trove of WFB lore that brought everything together in a careful and graceful way. Personally, I was never a fan of the End Times. The fact that it introduced rules allowing some of the strongest factions to team up, while ignoring weaker armies, really broke the game. It was one thing when the TK and VC got to combine forces, but the Warriors of Chaos were already pretty strong and definitely did not need help from the other Chaos factions (and I'm a WoC player). Worse still, the 3 Elven armies (each of whom are among the best armies in the game) had no business being allowed to form a super army. As far as the lore goes, admittedly I skipped most of it. Once the rumors got out and I saw where it was heading, I had little interest. I'd rather they had just left the world that was intact. Worst of all, I thought the End Times was misplaced effort. I'd much rather they had tied up loose ends and given us a complete edition by releasing the remaining 8th edition army books for Skaven, Bretonnia and Beastmen; plus 1 last round of FAQs for each army answering the lingering questions we were left with. Lastly, I'd love to have seen them finish the three books that were rumoured to have followed the Tamurkhan: The Throne of Chaos book. From what I've heard there was supposed to be a similar book released for each of the remaining Chaos Gods (Khrone, Slaanesh and Tzeentch). The general opinion of the End Times has really soured over the years, while Tamurkhan is typically considered to be one of the best Warhammer supplemental/champaign books. I'm admittedly a "little" biased here as my favourite Warhammer army are the Chaos Dwarfs, and I'm fairly certain that more units (and rules) were in the works for them. Shar'tor the Executioner for instance is widely believed to have been designed for WFB before GW blew it all up.
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Post by sedge on Dec 26, 2023 20:31:42 GMT
Related question to forum organisation - where should I be re-posting photos/news on new releases? I've been doing it for the last 5 years, and it's a major way of keeping people engaged, so I want to keep it going. For Games Workshop releases, I've always used the New Games Workshop Previews thread, which is the most popular one on the forum. But TOW stuff has been posted here recently. Interest in new models kind of applies across both games, and generally TOW models are usable for Warhammer Fantasy 8th edition, and other fantasy releases (e.g. AoS stuff) will sometimes be usable for TOW as well. I'd rather not post new stuff to both threads. Same issue for other manufacturers (e.g. Mierce) who release models relevant to both games.
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Post by Darnok on Dec 26, 2023 20:40:33 GMT
Great to see this subforum, well done! Good to keep things specific to TOW in a place of its own.
I agree with the notion of keeping the hobby section independent of editions - WHF models are WHF models after all, base size should not be a factor in regards to hobby.
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Post by KevinC on Dec 27, 2023 3:18:36 GMT
Related question to forum organisation - where should I be re-posting photos/news on new releases? I've been doing it for the last 5 years, and it's a major way of keeping people engaged, so I want to keep it going. For Games Workshop releases, I've always used the New Games Workshop Previews thread, which is the most popular one on the forum. But TOW stuff has been posted here recently. Interest in new models kind of applies across both games, and generally TOW models are usable for Warhammer Fantasy 8th edition, and other fantasy releases (e.g. AoS stuff) will sometimes be usable for TOW as well. I'd rather not post new stuff to both threads. Same issue for other manufacturers (e.g. Mierce) who release models relevant to both games. ---------------I like that you do this sedge - what if you just post TOW new releases in the TOW forum and everything else stays in the WFB forum? I think that works fine.
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Post by stagsbrew on Dec 31, 2023 11:29:05 GMT
I'm sure this has already been discussed, but for those of you who have been playing 8th edition since its launch, what do you think will happen to 8th ed once TOW releases?
Judging from how the forum has been set up, I assume you all see a future for both versions of Warhammer Fantasy to exist, but in what capacity? With the base sizes being changed for The Old World, it'll be a lot harder to jump around editions for those such as myself who are only just joining with this relaunch and those of you who are veterans and don't fancy rebasing entire collections.
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Post by thegoat on Dec 31, 2023 12:49:46 GMT
There is a sizable group of WHF 6th edition players out there. So it is possible fans of 8th edition will keep it going.
For myself, if WH:TOW is good, I'll switch to that rules set and not look back. But I'll continue to participate in this forum, as it is a good group of people.
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Post by KevinC on Dec 31, 2023 16:15:56 GMT
I'm sure this has already been discussed, but for those of you who have been playing 8th edition since its launch, what do you think will happen to 8th ed once TOW releases? Judging from how the forum has been set up, I assume you all see a future for both versions of Warhammer Fantasy to exist, but in what capacity? With the base sizes being changed for The Old World, it'll be a lot harder to jump around editions for those such as myself who are only just joining with this relaunch and those of you who are veterans and don't fancy rebasing entire collections. -------------I plan on playing both, just as a player might play both 40K and 30K. I'm not concerned about the bases, I'll use appropriate movement trays.
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Mallo
Full Member
Posts: 244
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Post by Mallo on Dec 31, 2023 16:22:00 GMT
I'm sure this has already been discussed, but for those of you who have been playing 8th edition since its launch, what do you think will happen to 8th ed once TOW releases? Judging from how the forum has been set up, I assume you all see a future for both versions of Warhammer Fantasy to exist, but in what capacity? With the base sizes being changed for The Old World, it'll be a lot harder to jump around editions for those such as myself who are only just joining with this relaunch and those of you who are veterans and don't fancy rebasing entire collections. I honestly don't see TOW surviving more than perhaps two years in what is a recognisable WFB format. This first wave will have all the hallmarks of WFB, but if it sells out I can see GW radically altering the fundamentals to appease the mass audience over keeping the veterans happy. The game will then get a 2nd edition for sure, but it will be a radically different tone. They are already pushing 'more hopeful' WFB fluff and suspect they will move the tone closer to that of AoS more 'Noblebright' fantasy as it becomes a more 'stand alone' project (ie: not relying on 20+ year old kits as much) Both new Necromunda and AoS are almost unrecognisable to their original versions. I suspect the old world will follow a similar trend. I suspect there to be a huge decrease in 8th Ed players, at least during the next 12 months. People will at least give TOW a chance, but I suspect the breaking point will be the time that Arcane journals out power the legacy army lists and legacy forces are swept aside. It makes sense for GW to 'allow' legacy' forces right now, it stops TOW looking like the Bret Vs TK game. But it won't be long before there is enough minis back on the market for core forces to take over and legacy be retired, even with a mass of veterans wanted to use older collections. I see 8th & 6th Edition remaining popular enough to warrant their own communities, and its likely anything 'new' for TOW will always be backwards edition compatible. On a personal note, whilst I'll buy into TOW and give it a chance I'm not a big fan of the communities that GW cater to now. I get why they do, its where the money is. But I generally feel I don't belong to the groups of modern players. Forums like this will continue to cater to folks like me who will be happy to continue to play 8th Ed when the TOW hype burns down a bit. With Warseer gone & Dakka being more a 'news and grumblings' forum, places where we can just come and see cool hobby projects will outlast any edition GW chooses to put out. But I'll continue to participate in this forum, as it is a good group of people. Totally this. Forums take just slightly more effort than facebook and that alone keeps a lot of the bad attitudes out. This forum is the best of all of them tbh.
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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Dec 31, 2023 18:32:45 GMT
I'm sure this has already been discussed, but for those of you who have been playing 8th edition since its launch, what do you think will happen to 8th ed once TOW releases? Judging from how the forum has been set up, I assume you all see a future for both versions of Warhammer Fantasy to exist, but in what capacity? With the base sizes being changed for The Old World, it'll be a lot harder to jump around editions for those such as myself who are only just joining with this relaunch and those of you who are veterans and don't fancy rebasing entire collections. I think 8th edition discussions will crater. TOW will pull most of the oxygen from the room and dominate the Warhammer Fantasy landscape. Personally, I'm sticking with 8th, but I do wonder how many others will do so.
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Post by tileag on Dec 31, 2023 20:42:58 GMT
I'm sure this has already been discussed, but for those of you who have been playing 8th edition since its launch, what do you think will happen to 8th ed once TOW releases? Judging from how the forum has been set up, I assume you all see a future for both versions of Warhammer Fantasy to exist, but in what capacity? With the base sizes being changed for The Old World, it'll be a lot harder to jump around editions for those such as myself who are only just joining with this relaunch and those of you who are veterans and don't fancy rebasing entire collections. I honestly don't see TOW surviving more than perhaps two years in what is a recognisable WFB format. This first wave will have all the hallmarks of WFB, but if it sells out I can see GW radically altering the fundamentals to appease the mass audience over keeping the veterans happy. The game will then get a 2nd edition for sure, but it will be a radically different tone. They are already pushing 'more hopeful' WFB fluff and suspect they will move the tone closer to that of AoS more 'Noblebright' fantasy as it becomes a more 'stand alone' project (ie: not relying on 20+ year old kits as much) Both new Necromunda and AoS are almost unrecognisable to their original versions. I suspect the old world will follow a similar trend. I suspect there to be a huge decrease in 8th Ed players, at least during the next 12 months. People will at least give TOW a chance, but I suspect the breaking point will be the time that Arcane journals out power the legacy army lists and legacy forces are swept aside. It makes sense for GW to 'allow' legacy' forces right now, it stops TOW looking like the Bret Vs TK game. But it won't be long before there is enough minis back on the market for core forces to take over and legacy be retired, even with a mass of veterans wanted to use older collections. I see 8th & 6th Edition remaining popular enough to warrant their own communities, and its likely anything 'new' for TOW will always be backwards edition compatible. On a personal note, whilst I'll buy into TOW and give it a chance I'm not a big fan of the communities that GW cater to now. I get why they do, its where the money is. But I generally feel I don't belong to the groups of modern players. Forums like this will continue to cater to folks like me who will be happy to continue to play 8th Ed when the TOW hype burns down a bit. With Warseer gone & Dakka being more a 'news and grumblings' forum, places where we can just come and see cool hobby projects will outlast any edition GW chooses to put out. But I'll continue to participate in this forum, as it is a good group of people. Totally this. Forums take just slightly more effort than facebook and that alone keeps a lot of the bad attitudes out. This forum is the best of all of them tbh. Hopefully they will stick to rank and file gameplay in the spirit of WFB. What they really needed to do (8th as well) is have a separate dedicated section of skirmish and push that as well. But I'm sure their thinking was "horde formation = more model sales" without thinking about how to get the newcomer in the hobby.
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Post by KevinC on Dec 31, 2023 21:29:54 GMT
I'm sure this has already been discussed, but for those of you who have been playing 8th edition since its launch, what do you think will happen to 8th ed once TOW releases? Judging from how the forum has been set up, I assume you all see a future for both versions of Warhammer Fantasy to exist, but in what capacity? With the base sizes being changed for The Old World, it'll be a lot harder to jump around editions for those such as myself who are only just joining with this relaunch and those of you who are veterans and don't fancy rebasing entire collections. I think 8th edition discussions will crater. TOW will pull most of the oxygen from the room and dominate the Warhammer Fantasy landscape. Personally, I'm sticking with 8th, but I do wonder how many others will do so. -----I completely respect that, but I'm curious why? I love 8th edition, my intent is to continue playing both. I'm curious why you won't be trying or playing TOW?
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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Dec 31, 2023 22:56:57 GMT
I think 8th edition discussions will crater. TOW will pull most of the oxygen from the room and dominate the Warhammer Fantasy landscape. Personally, I'm sticking with 8th, but I do wonder how many others will do so. -----I completely respect that, but I'm curious why? I love 8th edition, my intent is to continue playing both. I'm curious why you won't be trying or playing TOW? A while back over on Lustria Online we had a discussion about our personal TOW must haves / deal breakers. One of my most important "must haves" was that all four of my armies (CD, WoC, TK & LM) would be fully playable. I know that all the legacy armies are getting free pdf rules, but looking to AoS as past precedence, those rules are essentially meaningless. They will quickly be outdated by the new rules received by the featured armies and will slowly fade from the game (either officially or unofficially). It also means that the entire narrative of the game will revolve around armies that I don't really care that much about. Of my top 8 favourite Warhammer armies, only 3 of them are featured armies in TOW. I just figure why give up a game that prominently features all my favourite factions for a game that is focused around most of my least favourite ones. TOW's watered down magic phase (my favourite phase in WFB 8th) is also a big con, but isn't the ultimate disqualifier as the axing of WFB armies. That's my subjective take on TOW, but I definitely understand that others are very excited about it. On the plus side, having old discontinued kits make a return is a nice bonus!
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Post by mottdon on Jan 2, 2024 12:50:27 GMT
As for me, I'll definitely give TOW a chance, albeit a reserved one. It sounds as though, it's pretty close to what's come before, but after playing several games, I'll see if it's something I can delve into deeper, or if, like other attempts, I fall back on 'old reliable 8th.
Like you, Nightbringer, there are some cons for me, as well.
1) Base size swaps. That's nothing but an attempt to force veteran players to drop their old editions to fully embrace TOW and ensure it's success. I don't buy the whole, "It looks better!" argument. Maybe in some cases, but definitely not all. The sheer amount of hoops that poses for people, like myself, to shift the mere playability of armies, just so it "looks better"? I love the way my (12!) armies look! Yes, there are a FEW cases when I had to take a moment to actually THINK about how to position the figures on their bases, but that's like saying it's too tedious to have to decide between hamburgers or cheeseburgers! Is it going to stop me from playing? No, I'll get the appropriate size base, and stick my models on it. Eventually, I'll 3D print off enough trays or individual base converters to use.
2) The changes to magic. I'm on the fence about this one. It's literally a "Wait and see" issue for me. But, when one of the four main phases changes so drastically, that makes me suck in my breath and hold it, in anticipation of a hard hit.
3) Leaving out certain armies. Okay. I get that they don't want to merely jump in the deep end with no safety line, and a slow and steady wading into pool is a good business idea, especially considering the financial struggles of the past. I actually think that releasing other armies for future editions is a fabulous idea, when talking long term success. But to write off entire armies with mere footnote PDF's, simply because it "doesn't fit the timeline", that's truly troubling to me. In fact, it complete BS. It's not like Lizardmen, Skaven or Dark Elves suddenly spawned into existence.(Okay, maybe some Lizardmen were born that way, but you get me.)
I'm sure there will be other things that bother me (unit formations, special rules, names, stat tweaks, etc.) that'll rear their ugly heads along the way, but that's the case with any new game and just comes down to personal preference. Like I said, I'm willing to give it a good 'ole college try, and hopefully, I'll like it. If nothing else, I have access to purchase things I might've missed the first time 'round or bulk out units I didn't have quite enough of after ET. At the end of the day, I'll always have 8th to wrap myself in an enjoy its embrace.
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