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Post by xomitsious on Jan 22, 2024 10:33:40 GMT
Spent some time looking at the rules, and had some thoughts about the army.
Please bear in mind that I have limited experience playing in the last few editions, most of my games were back in 4th-5th.
Warband. Rule that allows Orc and goblin units (except black Orcs) to add their rank bonus to their Ld (similar to Skaven). In my opinion this is the biggest plus in our new rules and will prove significant on the table. Super excited abou that.
Wolf Riders. I expect these to be used very differently in ToW. With impetuous forcing them to charge 50% their role as charge directors should be hindered. They do however have chariot Riders, a rule that could give them a new and interesting role to play.
Snotlings. After Matt Ward made them utterly useless in 7th, these now have a role again, after gaining unbreakable. With true line of sight being so important, the little guys are bound to be of some use as a screen or something like that.
Core units being allowed magic banners. Finally! After a few editions of magic standards being limited to special units only we are back to giving our core troops extra utilities.
All in all I haven't been this excited about our roster possibilities since our first army book. Still no Shamans on Gigantic Spiders, but hey, can't have everything I guess.
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Post by KevinC on Jan 24, 2024 13:41:19 GMT
As a longtime Goblin player, I'm overall happy with the TOW army list, though I have not given it a deep dive (still watingin for my TOW world order to arrive).
The warband rule (the old Skaven rank/leadership bonus) is a great addition.
I'm glad Goblin units can get magic banners again and the Skirmish option for common Goblins in a fun option. I don't like that common Goblin cannot have bows AND shields, but I'll live with it.
I like that Goblin chariots can be in large units of 5 and get a standard.
I also agree Snotlings are a viable unit again.
Would like to be able to put a Shaman on a gigantic spider too, wish they would have allowed this.
The various Trolls units look better than ever, and they have equipment options for the first time! As a big Troll fan, I'm excited for the Troll army and the Troll Hag. Hopefully we see the O&G arcane journal in Feb!
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Post by xomitsious on Jan 26, 2024 17:33:15 GMT
Happy to hear your thoughts KevinC. Looking forward to your ideas and opinions after you spend some time with the books.
About the wolf rider special rule, it's called Chariot Runners (not riders as I said in my previous post). If I understand it correctly it means you can use skirmishing wolf (or spider) riders in the same unit as your chariots.
Pump wagons have loner but I think goblin cavalry can still use their ability with those too.
Had noticed Trolls getting equipment options, and characters can join units no matter their base size now, so I'm sure they'll remain a good choice.
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Post by thegoat on Jan 26, 2024 17:44:28 GMT
About the wolf rider special rule, it's called Chariot Runners (not riders as I said in my previous post). If I understand it correctly it means you can use skirmishing wolf (or spider) riders in the same unit as your chariots. Chariots can see through and move through units with the Chariot Runner rule (the models just move out of the way). Also Skirmishers with Chariot Runner can use Chariots as a member of the unit for maintaining unit coherency. But the chariot doesn't actually join the unit in any other sense. I don't really understand what this rule is trying to represent.
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Post by xomitsious on Jan 26, 2024 18:40:32 GMT
About the wolf rider special rule, it's called Chariot Runners (not riders as I said in my previous post). If I understand it correctly it means you can use skirmishing wolf (or spider) riders in the same unit as your chariots. Chariots can see through and move through units with the Chariot Runner rule (the models just move out of the way). Also Skirmishers with Chariot Runner can use Chariots as a member of the unit for maintaining unit coherency. But the chariot doesn't actually join the unit in any other sense. I don't really understand what this rule is trying to represent. Okay, unit coherency probably means the whole 1" apart that skirmishers have. So you can deploy some on either side of the chariot. All the riders still count as one unit despite the chariot separating them. Not 100% certain, but this is probably it.
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Post by thegoat on Jan 26, 2024 18:51:38 GMT
Chariots can see through and move through units with the Chariot Runner rule (the models just move out of the way). Also Skirmishers with Chariot Runner can use Chariots as a member of the unit for maintaining unit coherency. But the chariot doesn't actually join the unit in any other sense. I don't really understand what this rule is trying to represent. Okay, unit coherency probably means the whole 1" apart that skirmishers have. So you can deploy some on either side of the chariot. All the riders still count as one unit despite the chariot separating them. Not 100% certain, but this is probably it. I understand how the rule works on the tabletop. I meant I'm not sure what real world or fantasy military concept the rule is trying to model. I've never seen a movie where Egyptian warriors surrounded a chariot into battle.
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Post by xomitsious on Jan 26, 2024 19:01:57 GMT
I see. Well, finally I understand the rule too.
You're right, I don't think tactics like that were ever used in our world.
But I guess it gives wolf riders some interesting roles, especially if your general is on a chariot.
With one of the upcoming armies of infamy being nomadic (all cavalry and chariots ?) the rule should prove interesting.
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Post by KevinC on Jan 27, 2024 3:32:56 GMT
About the wolf rider special rule, it's called Chariot Runners (not riders as I said in my previous post). If I understand it correctly it means you can use skirmishing wolf (or spider) riders in the same unit as your chariots. Chariots can see through and move through units with the Chariot Runner rule (the models just move out of the way). Also Skirmishers with Chariot Runner can use Chariots as a member of the unit for maintaining unit coherency. But the chariot doesn't actually join the unit in any other sense. I don't really understand what this rule is trying to represent. -----------------This is a very cool rule, it basically means Goblin Wolf Riders can screen chariots and chariots can declare a charge and move through the Wolf Riders. The 1" rules means that the chariots can stop in-between the unit without causing any issues.
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twd
Junior Member
Warhammer player since 1st Edition - play Orcs, Dwarfs, Ogres, Daemons and Empire
Posts: 77
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Post by twd on Jan 29, 2024 23:52:58 GMT
Okay, unit coherency probably means the whole 1" apart that skirmishers have. So you can deploy some on either side of the chariot. All the riders still count as one unit despite the chariot separating them. Not 100% certain, but this is probably it. I understand how the rule works on the tabletop. I meant I'm not sure what real world or fantasy military concept the rule is trying to model. I've never seen a movie where Egyptian warriors surrounded a chariot into battle. It's a lift from WAB rules. WAB tried to model chariots more historically. Unlike in the movies (or WFB) real chariots didn't plough into the midst of enemies knocking them don like nine pins and severing limbs with their scythes. They raced up to near the enemy, the fighters jumped off, lobbed a few javelins, cut down the enemy champion, then they hopped back on the chariot and sped off. Quite annoying. So that's what the rule is trying to do.
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twd
Junior Member
Warhammer player since 1st Edition - play Orcs, Dwarfs, Ogres, Daemons and Empire
Posts: 77
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Post by twd on Jan 29, 2024 23:59:31 GMT
My main thought about O&G is that not having Animosity is a ridiculous decision. Impetuous is *not* animosity.
What makes WFB O&G different to Tolkien, D&D or any other variety of O&G? Animosity, that's what. So not having it is weird and foolish and makes me sad.
Unless it's in the Battle Journal Thing I'll probably just use the rules from 8th edition.
Also the Giant getting to choose attacks is Not Right either. You roll on a stupid table and it does the thing you don't want it to do and that's how giants should work. Being able to choose to do something that might make it worth its points for a change is Not Right.
Also it needs a template when it falls over.
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Post by chronicallychaotic66 on Jan 30, 2024 1:13:20 GMT
TWD I’m a long term appreciative reader of your blog.
Got to disagree that animosity is not Tolkein inspired though. I’m ashamed to admit I’ve not actually read LoTR for years (and I haven’t got time to go and look it up now) so the movies might be confusing me but don’t the white hand orcs and red eye orcs have some sort of barney before Eomer catches them? And there’s the uruks and normal orcs kicking off in the watchtower when Frodo is captured after Shelob gets him.
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twd
Junior Member
Warhammer player since 1st Edition - play Orcs, Dwarfs, Ogres, Daemons and Empire
Posts: 77
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Post by twd on Jan 30, 2024 7:32:42 GMT
You are right of course! That's how Merry and Pippin escape into the woods, isn't it? I guess I've always thought of that as fighting between two enemy (albeit loosely allied) forces rather than the internecine petty squabbling of da Boys! But it's definitely another example of GW drawing, ahem, "inspiration" from the work of JRR. But wherever they stol...errr... borrowed the idea from it still makes me sad that they got rid of it.
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Post by rustynumber on Feb 14, 2024 22:45:32 GMT
Tolkien all-orcs-are-dicks + UK football hooligans = GW orcs
I've got a couple of Mantic orc units, Mantic orc hero, spider riders and an araknarok spider, not enough for an army but enough to put along side my beastmen!
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Post by thegoat on Feb 15, 2024 0:11:22 GMT
Tolkien all-orcs-are-dicks + UK football hooligans = GW orcs Yes, GW Orcs (and 40K Orks) are British football hooligans. Somebody explained that to me thirty some odd years ago and it was the perfect analogy to explain why they had the animosity rule and jury rigged battlefield contraptions, etc.
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nasher
Junior Member
I didn't attend the funeral but I sent a nice letter saying, "I approve of it".
Posts: 74
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Post by nasher on Feb 15, 2024 5:08:20 GMT
Well I have posted up a O&G army list with Goblin Chariots and Wolfboys. The reserve move for wolves is back and something I liked playing 3rd Ed. The trick I believe you'll see is having a black orc unit or character nearby to keep your troops like them under control. Much as it was in 3rd Ed, the game has a LOT of similarities to that edition.
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