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Post by grandmasterwang on Apr 9, 2017 16:39:10 GMT
Is that a unit of Skullcrushers on the far right for you? If you hit a horde with the Crushers as well as a combat block you should do enough damage to win. Dwarfs are one of my main armies and Skullcrushers are one of the hardest units to take out in combat I have found.... of course that's what cannons are for. You have a movement advantage so should be able to pick more combats than he does. Given their slowness and high points.... it makes sense that a dwarf horde/mega block is dead hard in combat People have told me that the High King is uncompetitive in 8th Edition at his 650 points.... in a 5000+ point battle (probably the minimum size Throgrim would bother with) the increased chance to give dwarfs armywide hatred is well worth it. Did Boldo have that in this particular game? It can make a huge difference in that first round. That dwarf army is beautiful..... your unpainted Warriors never stood a chance!
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Post by Anaris on Apr 9, 2017 19:39:01 GMT
Is that a unit of Skullcrushers on the far right for you? If you hit a horde with the Crushers as well as a combat block you should do enough damage to win. Dwarfs are one of my main armies and Skullcrushers are one of the hardest units to take out in combat I have found.... of course that's what cannons are for. You have a movement advantage so should be able to pick more combats than he does. Given their slowness and high points.... it makes sense that a dwarf horde/mega block is dead hard in combat People have told me that the High King is uncompetitive in 8th Edition at his 650 points.... in a 5000+ point battle (probably the minimum size Throgrim would bother with) the increased chance to give dwarfs armywide hatred is well worth it. Did Boldo have that in this particular game? It can make a huge difference in that first round. That dwarf army is beautiful..... your unpainted Warriors never stood a chance! Yes and yes he had him. He rolled just hatred withchampions and characters re roll or something like that. He controlled my skull crushers more than I did, with frenzy and then he placed his gyrocopter in front of them, had me open my flank or whatever. Boldo is very good and very skilled. If any of you think you are skilled at warhammer 8th edition, you should totally go to Boldo's Armory in Rochester, NY and get a game in with him. He does pick up games and will be happy to play with any of you.
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Post by vulcan on Apr 9, 2017 21:15:19 GMT
Another problem you're having is maneuver control. Your opponent is winning the maneuver battle, dictating when and where the fights occur... and once that happens it becomes very hard for you to win.
I know Marauder horsemen are not well liked, but they do give you a very limited shooting capacity. And wardogs should be used (and abused) quite liberally by any and all Chaos armies. Indeed, one unit of dogs or horsemen per combat block would not be amiss. Watch what Boldo does with his Gyros, and do the same sort thing with your dogs/horsemen. It should work even better against Dwai, with their limited movement.
As far as the Frenzied crushers go, use a unit of dogs to screen them. That way they can't charge anything BUT the dogs (if they could) until the turn you WANT them to charge.
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Post by Horace on Apr 10, 2017 9:29:20 GMT
Part of not winning the maneuvers is the fact your battlefield and scenery placement is very generous. He can pretty much just walk his big blocks at you. Get some stuff put down in the middle and make those blocks turn (or fight in woods etc)
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Post by gjnoronh on Apr 10, 2017 21:00:38 GMT
Another problem you're having is maneuver control. Your opponent is winning the maneuver battle, dictating when and where the fights occur... and once that happens it becomes very hard for you to win. I know Marauder horsemen are not well liked, but they do give you a very limited shooting capacity. And wardogs should be used (and abused) quite liberally by any and all Chaos armies. Indeed, one unit of dogs or horsemen per combat block would not be amiss. Watch what Boldo does with his Gyros, and do the same sort thing with your dogs/horsemen. It should work even better against Dwai, with their limited movement. As far as the Frenzied crushers go, use a unit of dogs to screen them. That way they can't charge anything BUT the dogs (if they could) until the turn you WANT them to charge. Agree with this. Even with Warriors you should be trying to dictate when and where the fights occur. Get enough fast stuff to pressure warmachines (dogs, fliers, marauder cav, hellstriders) and some chaff to force dwarves to redirect in the directions you want when push comes to shove (chariots, dogs in particular) I don't particularly love the chimera or daemon prince as they are very expensive targets for warmachines.
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Post by askaval30 on Apr 10, 2017 21:45:57 GMT
As others have pointed out that's a lot of open space, more terrain would benefit you greatly.
as far as deathstars go my advice is to go full Hortense build... then engage the biggest, nastiest block he has and grind away while mopping up the rest and organizing combo charges with chariots/chimera/crushers etc
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Post by Anaris on Apr 10, 2017 21:48:47 GMT
As others have pointed out that's a lot of open space, more terrain would benefit you greatly. as far as deathstars go my advice is to go full Hortense build... then engage the biggest, nastiest block he has and grind away while mopping up the rest and organizing combo charges with chariots/chimera/crushers etc Hortense?
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Post by Horace on Apr 11, 2017 8:34:43 GMT
Hortense is basically the unkillable Tzeentch build. Stacking a variety of magic items to give a 1+ armour save and a 3+ ward save, then taking advantage of the Third Eye of Tzeentch (re-roll ward save 1s). It is pretty dirt in my opinion A common build would be a Lord on a Disc (Chaos Armour, Great Weapon) with Scaly Skin, Soul Feeder, Third Eye, Talisman of Preservation. This is then seasoned with Dawnstone/Crown of Command/Something else of your choice (obviously need to swap out the Talisman for Armour of Destiny or something if you go Dawnstone). Of course you don't have to go full dirt on your opponent, you could always tone the build down a touch
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Apr 11, 2017 11:55:55 GMT
I typically call this the "Dude on a Disc". The Dude abides. Go ahead, shoot cannon balls at him, it don't matter to the Jesus. ( Horace that was 2 quasi Lebowski references in one post, per your Avatar)
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Post by Anaris on Apr 11, 2017 12:00:15 GMT
Hortense is basically the unkillable Tzeentch build. Stacking a variety of magic items to give a 1+ armour save and a 3+ ward save, then taking advantage of the Third Eye of Tzeentch (re-roll ward save 1s). It is pretty dirt in my opinion A common build would be a Lord on a Disc (Chaos Armour, Great Weapon) with Scaly Skin, Soul Feeder, Third Eye, Talisman of Preservation. This is then seasoned with Dawnstone/Crown of Command/Something else of your choice (obviously need to swap out the Talisman for Armour of Destiny or something if you go Dawnstone). Of course you don't have to go full dirt on your opponent, you could always tone the build down a touch Why a great weapon and suffer the asl? Where does the word Hortense come from though?
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Post by Anaris on Apr 11, 2017 12:01:08 GMT
I typically call this the "Dude on a Disc". The Dude abides. Go ahead, shoot cannon balls at him, it don't matter to the Jesus. ( Horace that was 2 quasi Lebowski references in one post, per your Avatar) I thought his avatar was Horace irl playing bowling -____- I've been deceived
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Post by askaval30 on Apr 11, 2017 12:21:02 GMT
Hortense is basically the unkillable Tzeentch build. Stacking a variety of magic items to give a 1+ armour save and a 3+ ward save, then taking advantage of the Third Eye of Tzeentch (re-roll ward save 1s). It is pretty dirt in my opinion A common build would be a Lord on a Disc (Chaos Armour, Great Weapon) with Scaly Skin, Soul Feeder, Third Eye, Talisman of Preservation. This is then seasoned with Dawnstone/Crown of Command/Something else of your choice (obviously need to swap out the Talisman for Armour of Destiny or something if you go Dawnstone). Of course you don't have to go full dirt on your opponent, you could always tone the build down a touch Why a great weapon and suffer the asl? Where does the word Hortense come from though? Back in the day we had a professional troll by the name of Hortennse on one of the WoC boards who complained about this build incessantly... and of course the common consensus was to name this build in his honor ! as for the great weapon: A Hortense doesn't fear death... so rocking those S7 attacks meant you could have him face a wider variety of threats. Though to be fair I believe that the GW build was designed to crack High elf White Lion bunkers protected by the Banner of the World Dragon in order to reach the vulnerable characters inside.
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Post by Horace on Apr 11, 2017 13:00:21 GMT
I typically call this the "Dude on a Disc". The Dude abides. Go ahead, shoot cannon balls at him, it don't matter to the Jesus. ( Horace that was 2 quasi Lebowski references in one post, per your Avatar) I appreciated both I typically call this the "Dude on a Disc". The Dude abides. Go ahead, shoot cannon balls at him, it don't matter to the Jesus. ( Horace that was 2 quasi Lebowski references in one post, per your Avatar) I thought his avatar was Horace irl playing bowling -____- I've been deceived Nobody f**ks with the Horace! Why a great weapon and suffer the asl? Where does the word Hortense come from though? Back in the day we had a professional troll by the name of Hortennse on one of the WoC boards who complained about this build incessantly... and of course the common consensus was to name this build in his honor ! as for the great weapon: A Hortense doesn't fear death... so rocking those S7 attacks meant you could have him face a wider variety of threats. Though to be fair I believe that the GW build was designed to crack High elf White Lion bunkers protected by the Banner of the World Dragon in order to reach the vulnerable characters inside. Indeed, you can switch out the GW and use some of the magic item allowance for something else if you feel like it, but when you are basically unkillable why not take the S7? You are wounding pretty much everything on a 2 or 3 (at worse)
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Post by TheREALricksalamone on Apr 11, 2017 14:20:45 GMT
To address the original question, I have preferences for unit size that may depend on my model collection or game tactics.
Empire state troops (35-50 bus) Knights 10-12 Xbow/guns troops 10-20 Archers 5-10
Chaos warriors w shields (24, 6x4) halberds (21-28, 7x3+) Forsaken 10 Chaos ogres 8 Trolls w additional hand weapons 6-12 dogs 5 Marauders w GW (I want a horde of 40 but for now it's a smallish unit)
Skeletons 50 (bus or horde depending on spears/swords) Zombies 20 for Necro bunker, otherwise 60-100 for the spectacle of the thing Ghouls (look like shit and make no sense in the fluff so I rarely use them...25) Grave guard w GW (40 in horde) Grave Guard w shields 25-40 Crypt Horrors (6-18...I'd like a unit of 24 ultimately) Spirit Hosts 1 Bat Swarms 2 Blood Knights 5-10
Bretonnian knights I'm planning units of 15-18 for the fight in extra rank advantage
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Post by grandmasterwang on Apr 11, 2017 14:58:46 GMT
Why a great weapon and suffer the asl? Where does the word Hortense come from though? Back in the day we had a professional troll by the name of Hortennse on one of the WoC boards who complained about this build incessantly... and of course the common consensus was to name this build in his honor ! as for the great weapon: A Hortense doesn't fear death... so rocking those S7 attacks meant you could have him face a wider variety of threats. Though to be fair I believe that the GW build was designed to crack High elf White Lion bunkers protected by the Banner of the World Dragon in order to reach the vulnerable characters inside. The way that name came about is quite amusing.
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