|
Post by roughtimes on Apr 23, 2017 19:07:11 GMT
Well the real problem is 40k's declining popularity(there was even a brief point where AoS outsold it)due to the entry barrier gauntlet that doomed fantasy. People are going over to x-wing in droves for a easier to get into popular Sci-fi. They got the niche and loyal fanbase, they just need to make it easier to build on those. Horace, Oh yeah, people were going to leave regardless like any edition change. A better launch would've ensured more people stayed though rather than the majority taking a wait-and-see stance that the GA books, general's handbook and summer campaign were able to bring back in. Does a lot of this go back to GW's insane pricing strategy? When I'm looking at new miniature games, price is pretty much the number one factor in my decision.
|
|
|
Post by TheREALricksalamone on Apr 23, 2017 19:20:47 GMT
I am wondering how much of the shift in tabletop gaming has to do with painting. I don't feel like Joe Nerd is interested in taking up the hobby/art of miniature painting due to so many other draws on his attention. Netflix, iPhones, online gaming, etc. fill a spot that a young man, say 15 years ago, might have filled with painting some troops.
I could walk into a shop and spend like $100 and play xwing. Today it would cost me that much to buy the paints and brushes needed...not even factoring the many hours needed for the task.
These are good times for Joe Nerd as he has lots of options to buy stuff online and also network with like minded nerds. Tabletop and board games seem to have achieved some level of social acceptance. However, painting models cannot compete with everything else. Add to that the fact that so many game systems are flashes in the pan. Who wants to invest 100 hours of their life painting a warband for Game X when they will run out of opponents in 18 months and have to sell their models on Bartertown at a loss?
Warhammer Fantasy and 40k were, in my mind, supposed to be constants in the game world. Old models would always be usable with newer rulesets and it would even be cool to have these old collections of miniatures.
GW appears to be trashing the "legacy" aspect of its product.
|
|
|
Post by Baronthehumbled on Apr 23, 2017 19:35:45 GMT
Oh absolutely, thus the start collecting sets and better value deals overall. (Be nice for a dirt cheap easy-to-build set to be made for 40k too.) (Looks at devoted Mordheim, Malifaux and Frostgrave fans...) You can use all your old models in AoS and nothing has shown 8th 40k isn't following the same mindset. Heck, Tomb kings are a top competitive army in AoS and GW gave the thumbsup for a fan made battletome to be used at Adepticon. (I'm actually helping with the Bretonnia version. )
|
|
|
Post by mottdon on Apr 23, 2017 20:07:50 GMT
So, Baron, I'm confused exactly why you're here. It really seems like you completely agree that GW has made the best decision in destroying 8th edition - which is what this forum is all about. Do you prefer AoS over 8th?
|
|
|
Post by grandmasterwang on Apr 23, 2017 20:25:55 GMT
I am less against the rules change for 40k as I consider current 40k to be a convoluted, unbalanced mess with rules all over the place and a bunch of nonsensical special rules. I do feel sorry for people who bought all the recent codexes and expansions which will be invalidated though.
My biggest concern is actually what they do to the 40k background. I don't trust GW to do a good job with moving the story forwards. I read Curse of the Wulfen and thought it was shocking. I hope they don't butcher it too badly.....
I tried to learn 7th Edition with a mate not too long ago but we both decided it wasn't worth getting into.
The core 7th 40k rulebook will still be the basis for 30k I think.
No problem at all with the rant TC. Let it out.
|
|
|
Post by Anaris on Apr 23, 2017 20:28:59 GMT
I don't think the 40k guy deserves a slap for basically 40k-ing 40k.. I meant he get slapped before hand so he doesn't ruin it. And I agree the game needs to change. That's why I left it and my space marines and eldar behind.
|
|
|
Post by Baronthehumbled on Apr 23, 2017 20:49:34 GMT
Ohh, alright. I guess I can agree with that then Well, I do favor AoS over 8th now but I still love reading the battle reports, my Old world novels and rpg supplements as well. This forum's pretty chill as well which is another reason I enjoy it. [Edit]: I also originally came here to make up for the ill-informed hate I had for 8.5's Bretonnian ideas. Thus the "humbled" in my user name.
|
|
|
Post by mottdon on Apr 23, 2017 22:22:40 GMT
Ohh, alright. I guess I can agree with that then Well, I do favor AoS over 8th now but I still love reading the battle reports, my Old world novels and rpg supplements as well. This forum's pretty chill as well which is another reason I enjoy it. [Edit]: I also originally came here to make up for the ill-informed hate I had for 8.5's Bretonnian ideas. Thus the "humbled" in my user name. Oh, okay. I was a little concerned that you might be hatin' on 8th!
|
|
|
Post by Baronthehumbled on Apr 23, 2017 22:37:11 GMT
Never! 0-0
I still love it and the Old World. I just also expanded to AoS as well.
|
|
|
Post by rockcity on Apr 24, 2017 1:10:51 GMT
Never! 0-0 I still love it and the Old World. I just also expanded to AoS as well. There really is something to be said for the world that GW created for Warhammer Fantasy. It has such a variety of settings/characters + an astonishing mountain of literature and media set in it's universe. My favorite thing these days is how it has finally got some well done PC games. TW Warhammer - Mordheim - Vermintide are all excellent in my books. I have read/been exposed to a fair chunk of the warhammer fantasy stuff that is out there over the years but there are still new things I am running into/reading all the time.
|
|
|
Post by Horace on Apr 24, 2017 8:40:39 GMT
(Looks at devoted Mordheim, Malifaux and Frostgrave fans...) You can use all your old models in AoS and nothing has shown 8th 40k isn't following the same mindset. Heck, Tomb kings are a top competitive army in AoS and GW gave the thumbsup for a fan made battletome to be used at Adepticon. (I'm actually helping with the Bretonnia version. ) I think Mordheim, Necromunda etc are actually great examples of games which don't require 100s of hours of painting. Those are the type of introductory games that should have existed in AoS's place in my opinion. You could build your gang, paint it very quickly and easily and then incorporate it into an expanding force to use in a bigger game. Those gateway games I have seen many real life examples of getting people you would not expect into the hobby and even painting their minis to a very basic standard. The scale of models required to play WFB/40k/AoS properly is both intimidating to someone without any sort of collection & absolutely insanely priced (even with the less insane, but still massively overpriced start collecting boxes) As for using legacy models in AoS, you can sure, but they don't really fit do they.
|
|
|
Post by Baronthehumbled on Apr 24, 2017 9:12:28 GMT
Indeed, a dark yet captivating world that few can hold a candle to. It's rather crazy how many fantasy tropes it actually created and massive effects it had on the fantasy genre in general. WFB and 40K indeed, despite the fact that warhammer skirmish and killteam were a thing, but you'll have to define "properly" for AoS. A start collecting kit comes with it's own formation rules that allows the force to be effective on it's own. (Maybe not at a tourney level but that's a different level of commitment anyway.) Open play and narrative play are also encouraged and detailed in the general book that cut down army sizes as well. To say nothing of the starter set book that shown low model scenarios to even a game of solitaire. I certainly think they do, that grand alliance books show the races off and how they fit into the new setting certainly helps. Explanations that the Freeguild resemble the legendary Empire armies of the past by using Sigmar's library(he made to not repeat the mistakes of the End Times) and passed down heraldry that changed in name over time (ex:Myrmidia to the Sanguine Lady of flames) was a nice touch. Totally fine if you prefer them only on the Old World, though. Again, sorry to white knight but it is a favorite game of mine.
|
|
|
Post by frozenfood on Apr 24, 2017 12:12:58 GMT
Okay. He lives....for now.
Actually I know next to nothing about AoS mythology so it's interesting to read they do acknowledge the old world.
|
|
|
Post by wilsonthenarc on Apr 24, 2017 13:00:18 GMT
|
|
|
Post by mottdon on Apr 24, 2017 13:37:11 GMT
Can't argue with that, especially since GW has been gearing up AoS since around the end of 7th edition. I personally think it was the changing of the guard between Kirby to Rountree (blessed be his name) that grinded up the release ideas for AoS. Them just adding a larger narrative about the age of myth,when the reborn races of the Old World had made empires throughout the realms, and built up the story to the age of Sigmar instead of just dropping everyone into the middle of it would've done wonders. Early Grand Alliance books would've been a great idea too so people didn't have to worry about their armies. Personally, I think it's the way they ended 8th. I really don't understand why they had to end it at all. What players really wanted was an advancement in the story line, not a complete rehaul. By moving up the storyline a couple hundred years, they could have new characters (while keeping old ones like Nagash, Teclis, etc.) and even introduce new armies like the Sigmarines. I remember SO MANY people talking about a skirmish game IN ADDITION TO the regular 8th edition format. That would've kept everyone happy and they would still be producing the same products they are now. Why kill the old world? I'm sure that's what's got so many 40K players worried too. If I were going to get into a Sci-fi game, I'd probably go with X-Wing too. It's been proven, cheaper, and the company hasn't shown any indication of screwing their customers over. Can't really go wrong there.
|
|