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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2017 17:33:34 GMT
Sorry I keep pestering everyone with army lists but I just can't help it. Army creation is one of the more fun parts of this game for me and when I'm bored I mess around in Army Builder to see what kind of lists I can come up with. And it was raining yesterday so I had a lot of time on my hands...
I've decided that Dark Elves are next after I finish the Skaven, here is my 1st draft list for my 2000 point games I've been playing:
Lords: Supreme Sorceress lvl4 w/Talisman of Preservation, dispel scroll SHADOW MAGIC Heroes: Master bsb w/Sword of Might, Dawnstone, Ironcurse Icon, heavy armor, sea dragon cloak, cold one Core: 21 Witch Elves w/full command, razor standard 5 Dark Riders w/repeater crossbow, shield 5 Dark Riders w/repeater crossbow, shield 15 Dark Shards w/musician, shield Special: Repeater Bolt Thrower Repeater Bolt Thrower 9 Cold One Knights w/full command, Ranger's Standard War Hydra w/flaming breath Rare: 5 Doomfire Warlocks w/Master
1993 Points.
Thoughts? I'm thinking I could drop the ranger standard for either a flaming banner (monster hunting cold ones!) or no standard altogether to beef up the size of the darkshards. Darkshards are a bunker for the sorceress.
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Post by frozenfood on May 22, 2017 18:25:08 GMT
Army building is the reason I play this game and gives me the most joy. Glad to see I'm not alone. Also, I know nothing about Dark Elves
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2017 22:17:52 GMT
If it helps, I've played exactly 2 games against them with my WoC. I did play HE for a while and so I compare them to HE's now.
Universal Rules: hatred high elves reroll rolls to wound of '1' in cc (murderous prowess) ASF
Basic elf stats: 5 4 4 3 3 1 5 1 8
Repeater crossbows on the dark[noun]s: 24" S3 Armor Piercing, Multiple shots(2)
Witch elves have a 6++, 2 hand weapons, and frenzy. oh and poisoned attacks and I6.
dark riders don't lose fast cavalry when they purchase shields so: M9 fast cavalry with a 4+ armor save and repeater crossbows.
cold ones have stupidity (ld9 tho) and the knights are WS5,S4,I6. The mount is WS3,S4, with 2A as well.
Hydra is a monster with WS/BS4 and mostly 5's for the other stats (I2). It no longer has regeneration as a rule. Instead it has a 4+ armor save. At the end of your turn if it's taken wounds you roll a dice for each lost wound and on a 4+ it regains that wound. S4 breath weapon; move into the flank of an enemy then flame away/charge next turn.
Doomfire Warlocks: ahh these guys...S4, 2A, poison, fast cavalry and a 4++. If that weren't awesome enough they're also a lvl2 wizard who knows Doombolt (2D6/4D6 S5 hits) and Soulblight (from lore of death; -1S&T).
the army has a lot of speed, and (hopefully) enough shooting and magic to deal with monsters, chariots, and the like. Lore of shadow synergizes with the shooting (hex their T) and the CC of the witch elves/knights with mindrazor. I can also hex ws where needed to keep me hitting on 3's. i can hex BS of key enemy shooting units (irondrakes,organ gun,hellblaster,etc...) to keep them from hitting ANYTHING.
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Post by mahbruck on May 23, 2017 5:30:47 GMT
The Witch Elves don't have a Ward save unless they are with the Cauldron. Anyway, for about 2000 pts, this list is almost maximal in terms of power and fun. Dark Elves probably got one of the strongest books in the 8th Ed, with almost every unit being a severe threat. I would have a headache to decide which to get shot first here!
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Post by frozenfood on May 23, 2017 5:53:57 GMT
Looking good then. Was thinking about the champion with the cold ones but in this kind of gamehe might be of use. Why are dark elves not more popular?
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Post by mahbruck on May 23, 2017 6:47:37 GMT
Why are dark elves not more popular? Asur Ministry of Information.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 16:21:42 GMT
I suspect with High Elves being in the starter they get a lot more attention that their depraved kin. With more ready access to models (and cheaper access with all the IoB plastics out there) I think a lot of people get their elf fix by playing high elves.
Good call about the saves on the witch elves. I thought they had a natural 6++ that increased to 5++ when joined by a cauldron but apparently not.
Also with the bsb riding with the Cold Ones it might be nice to have a unit champ in there to take/issue challenges against characters the bsb wouldn't want to fight.
I'm excited to have an elf army. I tried high elves once (IoB convinced me to start) but didn't like them, now I get to fight on the side of the proper phoenix king!
I found a great deal on ebay and have all these models sans the warlocks, which are the only thing I'll need to buy for this list. Skaven won't be finished painted for another 3 months or so so I've got plenty of time to pick up a box!
Thanks for all the input guys looks like I'll be keeping this list around then!
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Post by knoffles on May 23, 2017 22:12:30 GMT
The list is solid and similar to one a mate runs. Probably the one unit that isn't considered optimal in it is cold ones but I think I couldn't not have them, as they are hands down my favourite cav models (which is why I own 10 of them and no other dark elves).
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Post by Horace on May 24, 2017 12:26:26 GMT
I think Cold Ones are still a pretty damn good option. I will run 10 or so when I finally get around to sorting the DE out
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2017 20:09:46 GMT
Agreed. The Dark Elf Cold Ones (and I make a distinction here as Lizardmen ones are garbage next to these, I have both) are some of the best looking cavalry in the game (I'm biased, but I think Chaos Knights are cooler). There's no way that I could NOT take them.
I could make a case for executioners in their stead though, as the army needs some source of S6, but the speed and the armor save and the cool factor sway the decision into the Cold One Knights favor.
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Post by dannytee on Jun 4, 2017 23:28:29 GMT
I could make a case for executioners in their stead though, as the army needs some source of S6, but the speed and the armor save and the cool factor sway the decision into the Cold One Knights favor. Overall looks like a very strong list with lots of tools to deal with enemy armies. The one thing I wonder is how do you deal with monster mash (high T) or cav (high armor) builds? But based on your above post you seems to have thought about this a bit already and maybe you have a way with this list and I am just not seeing it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2017 16:27:52 GMT
Overall looks like a very strong list with lots of tools to deal with enemy armies. The one thing I wonder is how do you deal with monster mash (high T) or cav (high armor) builds? But based on your above post you seems to have thought about this a bit already and maybe you have a way with this list and I am just not seeing it. The army is designed to be a rounded, take all-comers list. For cavalry and monsters I have the bolt throwers and my own cavalry, and beyond that there's always mind razor from lore of shadow (fingers crossed) if I need it. Doombolt from the warlocks can put some serious hurt on monsters as well. 2D6/4D6 S5 hits is nothing to scoff at. If the monster doesn't fly and doesn't have a lot of armor or regen or something like that witch elves have poisoned attacks. I'm thinking I could drop the Hydra and the banner on the knights (and maybe drop some darkshards) to put some executioners in the list. A second source of S6 in the list (and S6 all the time to boot) not to mention KB could be useful. Problem is I don't think that would free up enough points; executioners are 12 points each and I'd want a unit of 21, although I could try and get by with 14.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 20:42:58 GMT
I'm not happy with the darkshards, so I thought I would try tweaking the list a little:
Lords:
Supreme Sorceress lvl4 w/Talisman of Preservation, dispel scroll SHADOW MAGIC
Heroes:
Master bsb w/Sword of Might, Dawnstone, Ironcurse Icon, heavy armor, sea dragon cloak, cold one
Core:
21 Witch Elves w/full command, razor standard
5 Dark Riders w/repeater crossbow, shield
5 Dark Riders w/repeater crossbow, shield
10 Dark Shards w/musician, shield
10 Dark Shards w/musician, shield Special:
Repeater Bolt Thrower
Repeater Bolt Thrower
9 Cold One Knights w/full command
War Hydra w/flaming breath
Rare:
5 Doomfire Warlocks
1983 Points.
By dropping the master from the warlocks (+1 A only) and the rangers standard from the cold ones I managed to squeeze in another 5 Dark shards and then split them into two units of 10 instead of a single unit of 20-22.
Here are my thoughts and what I was wondering:
This gives me better control over my shooting as I feel that 2 units of 10 > 1 unit of 20 for shooting purposes.
The tradeoff is that the bunker for the Sorceress is now smaller, although if it takes significant casualties I can always jump her into the other unit.
This also means that I'll have fewer bodies for combat, although I don't want them in combat. They'll have hw/shield so can stick around for a little bit against chaff, but will melt against any dedicated combat unit. A single unit of 20 is more imposing, they'd be 10 wide to maximize shooting but I could see an emergency free reform happening if it looks like I'm about to get charged. (and with only the witch elves, hydra, and cold ones in the list as dedicated combat units chances are good that they may need to see combat; that Orc & Goblin list my friend runs has 6 combat units (although 2 of those units are 20-man night goblins), my skaven has 4/5; 2 large slave blocks, 1 stormvermin horde, 1 clanrat bus and a hellpit.
I do feel that efficient use of my shooting, magic and fast cavalry will be essential here to help protect my flanks and create manageable combats for my troops (something I'm looking forward to immensely)
A single unit of 20 has points remaining (unless I take another body or two) to add a standard for the scenario that requires them to win.
Also this brings up the fact that the list has 30 repeater crossbows and 2 repeater bolt throwers in it now. Is that too much shooting? I'm looking to supplement the cc aspect of Dark Elves with their awesome shooting, not entirely take it over.
Thoughts?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 22:11:59 GMT
I'm also thinking (list 2)
Lords:
Supreme Sorceress lvl4 w/Talisman of Preservation, dispel scroll SHADOW MAGIC
Heroes:
Master bsb w/Sword of Might, Dawnstone, Ironcurse Icon, heavy armor, sea dragon cloak, cold one
Core:
21 Witch Elves w/full command, razor standard
5 Dark Riders w/repeater crossbow, shield
5 Dark Riders w/repeater crossbow, shield
10 Dark Shards w/musician, shield
Special:
Repeater Bolt Thrower
Repeater Bolt Thrower
9 Cold One Knights w/full command
~30 Executioners w/full command
Rare:
5 Doomfire Warlocks
~2000 Points.
This list is going from memory on points, but it trades the Hydra and a unit of Dark Shards for a unit of around 30 executioners. I can crunch out a more accurate list when I get home from work and can use army builder.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Jun 6, 2017 23:52:53 GMT
I'm also thinking (list 2) Lords: Supreme Sorceress lvl4 w/Talisman of Preservation, dispel scroll SHADOW MAGIC Heroes: Master bsb w/Sword of Might, Dawnstone, Ironcurse Icon, heavy armor, sea dragon cloak, cold one Core: 21 Witch Elves w/full command, razor standard 5 Dark Riders w/repeater crossbow, shield 5 Dark Riders w/repeater crossbow, shield 10 Dark Shards w/musician, shield Special: Repeater Bolt Thrower Repeater Bolt Thrower 9 Cold One Knights w/full command ~30 Executioners w/full command Rare: 5 Doomfire Warlocks ~2000 Points. This list is going from memory on points, but it trades the Hydra and a unit of Dark Shards for a unit of around 30 executioners. I can crunch out a more accurate list when I get home from work and can use army builder. I would be more scared of the other list actually despite my love of Executioners. It's definitely not too much shooting and still has some CC punch.
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