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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 17:00:55 GMT
Hey all it's me again,
I was thinking that once I'm done with Skaven and Dark Elves I would work on Empire after that. Now I know that this is a seriously long time away and it seems silly to be thinking about it already but there are two reasons why I have elected to do this; one because I enjoy list building and two I don't have a lot of Empire models and so it will be nice over the next 6 months or so to know what ebay auctions to watch out for, and know which GW kits I should save my money for if I decide to buy it new.
Without further ado, here is my 1st draft of the list, let me know what you think.
Lords: Battle Wizard Lord lvl4 with Lore of Life. Dispel scroll, Talisman of Preservation
Heroes: Captain of the Empire General w/ plate armor, enchanted shield, luckstone Captain of the Empire bsb w/ armor of destiny, shield Master Engineer Warrior Priest w/ armor of silvered steel, ironcurse icon, great weapon
Core: 40 Halberdiers w/ full command 30 Swordsmen w/ full command
Special: 5 Pistoliers w/musician 5 Pistoliers w/musician Great Cannon
Rare: Celestial Hurricanum Steam Tank Helblaster
Thoughts?
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Post by knoffles on Jun 14, 2017 17:40:52 GMT
How filth do you want the list to be? 😉. One of that chaps at the club is a solid tourney Empire player and he always has some really good synergies in his list. He loves his 40-50 strong unit of halbardiers supported by a priest and the hurricanum. He highly recommends Lore of light as the go to for Empire due to the buffs. Swordsman are ok but lack any real hitting power (though I have 32 oldhammer 3rd ed. halflings that I run as free company militia, which aren't exactly any better). Pistoliers are also good but are often target priority no.1 for enemy missile units, so as an alternative, have you considered a unit or two of 5 heavy cav as armoured chaff (similar to high elf silver helms) and these will also come out of core (gw no longer sells empire cav however fireforge miniatures sells very reasonably priced knights and where I'll be shopping for Bret alternatives). It might be worth adding a cheap magic weapon to your general for dealing with ethereal units. (You'll see this comment a lot from me as been stung more than once by them 😀). On other alternative options, Great swords are some of my favourite models but like demigryphs can be surprisingly meh on the table. Flagellants I love as they can mince through opposing units and the fluff is excellent. The rest of the list is solid. Everything a good Empire player should take.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 17:51:36 GMT
Thanks knoffles.
I want to keep my friends so I'm trying not to make the list too OTT. I'm mostly taking units that I have/that I think are cool. That's the reason I have both halberdiers and swords in the list. swords because I have like 30 of them (and I like how they look) halberdiers because I need something that somehow approaches hitty. I decided on the hurricanum because I thought the +1 to hit would be more efficient than the 6+ ward that the luminark provides seeing as swords already have a parry. I know the ward will work against everything and all that but... I also like the +1 power die over the +1 dispel die. I have an unbuilt kit (amazingly) so I can build it out however I want.
Steamtanks are cool so there's no way I can play empire without taking one. It's unique and an iconic empire unit. Same goes for the helblaster. And if I take a helblaster I absolutely must take an engineer.
Pistoliers are one of my favorite units, but I like the idea of a heavy cav chaff that thought hadn't occurred to me. I'll look into that. I was planning to use them defensively to help protect my flanks from units that are trying to get at the artillery as (right now anyway) I don't have ranged troops to cover that need.
I was worried that I may have too many points in characters. They all provide a need and I know empire characters are there to buff the units so I thought cold-blooded leadership tests in both units, hatred, and lore of life would help out my units pretty well. Plus I can heal the hurricanum/steamtank if I need to. But I can definitely get behind the lore of light too, it's a good lore.
I forgot about magic weapons. Right now I don't face off against armies with ethereal units but I will keep that under advisement if my situation ever changes.
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Post by knoffles on Jun 14, 2017 18:19:03 GMT
I may have got my chariots mixed up, I meant the +1 to hit one. Agree with the hellblaster and stank. It would be wrong to field an army without them!
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Post by mahbruck on Jun 14, 2017 20:08:30 GMT
I'm probably among the few Empire generals who prefer the historical approach for an Imperial army. No Stank as I have hated this thing since the 6th edition, when folks attending GW Grand Tournament quipped that every village had two instead of 12 for the whole Empire according to the Imperial propaganda ! No Helblaster, no Demigryphs either, just the classical mix of spearmen, halberdiers, crossbowmen, handgunners, knights, pistolliers and loads of cannons led by special characters like Karl Franz (on horsey please), Valten or Kurt Helborg (Real human steel here!) My 2000 list would probably be like this: Valten on Barded wH with Ghal Maraz Captain BSB Full plate, BWH, sword of might, dawn stone, Ironcurse Jade wizard lv2 with dispel scroll Warrior priest with heavy armor and enchanted shield 38 Halberdiers FC with a Detachment of 6 militia (chaff) and a Dtm of 10 halberdier 10 Knight IC FC with banner of Swiftness and Great weapon (hosting Valten and BSB) 12 Xbowmen with a Detachment of 5 militia and 6 archers 2 great cannon 5 Pistollier with musicians Total points: 1998 Look piss weak but none can accuse me of deliberately aiming to lose with the presence of Valten!
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Post by mottdon on Jun 14, 2017 20:24:33 GMT
Empire is my specialty! I love my Empire. It's a little bit of everything. Neither good, nor bad.
As far as units go, the BEST piece you can own is the Helblaster (WITH an Engineer!). People talk about taking two Stanks being cheese? See what happens when you take two Helblasters! IMO, they are an absolute must take! So...good job on including that.
I like taking the two units of Halb. and Swordsmen. It never fails that one of them WILL RUN. Good to have another option. 40 Halb. is a good size though.
I know EVERYONE says that the Hurricanum is better, but I suppose I just like to be different a bit. IMO, the Empire troops aren't what you're going to win the game with. It's things like HBVG, Stanks, Demigryphs and Cannons that'll win you the game. The troops are there to mop up and block the enemy from trashing your good stuff. That's why I like the Luminark better. Sure, it only gives a 6++ bubble, BUT if you add in a few things like a Witch Hunter (only 55 pts with Brace of Pistols), then you will give his unit (Halberdiers?) a 4++ vs magic. The Luminark is also another cannon for your army. People don't expect it. They are thinking to avoid your Great Cannon and Stank cannon, but forget to stay out of LoS for the Luminark "Cannon". Besides, the Luminark looks way cooler.
I'd probably try to fit in a Witch Hunter in there somewhere. They are super-fun, can add some nice benefits that opponents don't really think about, have Killing Blow (with two pistol shots!), special rules about undead and deamon stuff and can give their unit +2MR. Like I said, a lot of people overlook that, but can make a huge difference. I REALLY wanted GW to give the WH a mount! That would be incredible!
Pistoliers are meh. They've never really done very much for me. In a head to head matchup vs other Fast Cav (EReavers, Dark Riders, even Wolf Riders) they will usually lose. They're pests. They might be able to hunt down some war machines, but other than that, not much. Shooting their two pistols into a block might take 1 or 2 off, but again, meh. I'd swap them out for Demigryphs. You'll get so much more use out of them!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 21:03:00 GMT
Thanks guys for all the help. I'll definitely consider everything that's been said.
Now to ponder about changes to the list and points needed to make those changes...
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Post by knoffles on Jun 14, 2017 21:29:47 GMT
I feel I should give a shout out for the outriders. They are also some of my favourite empire units. They are perhaps difficult to use effectively but they can be a great flank unit and can really dish the hurt.
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Post by Naitsabes on Jun 15, 2017 1:59:49 GMT
I like your original list. Pretty classic 'a little bit of everything' like the Empire should be. A couple thoughts: - upgrade the captain to a lord. it's a measly ~20pts more but you get Ld9. Empire is one of the armies that can comfortably fit in lord and lv4 - consider dropping the pricey armor on the priest. if you run the halberdiers as a horde, the priest should be on a corner and not receiving too many attacks from rank-n-file (none if you charge properly). and, if a badass character wants him dead that armor will not be enough. - I agree with the suggestion above for units of 5-6 knight (with musician only, deploy 3x2). you have 1+ core troops, use them. - pistoliers are mostly useful as charge lane blockers. do not expect them to do much else. one unit might be enough because the knights can do some of that
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Post by frozenfood on Jun 15, 2017 9:04:39 GMT
Cool. No demis, no archer screens. I would give that poor General some better weapons but I like it.
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Post by mottdon on Jun 15, 2017 14:04:32 GMT
I feel I should give a shout out for the outriders. They are also some of my favourite empire units. They are perhaps difficult to use effectively but they can be a great flank unit and can really dish the hurt. I concur. These guys can be great. I'd take a unit of 10 though and MAKE SURE you can vanguard with them. They might need some Hunters scouting ahead to clear the way of other vanguarding units. Move them up within shooting range and turn 1, let hell loose! Now, THIS is where a unit of Pistoliers can come in handy. Vanguard them up right behind your Outriders and when they get charged, flee back through your Pistoliers and protect your more valuable unit. With any luck, your Pistoliers will be able to stick around another turn and allow your outriders to set up for another volley. 30 shots from these guys is nothing to sneer at!
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Post by mottdon on Jun 15, 2017 14:14:32 GMT
I think you're starting off in a good way with Empire. Later, when you've gotten to a point where you're ready to start filling out your army more, you might want to check into getting a lot of knights. I love running all knight lists. A unit of Inner Circle Knights, a unit of White Wolf Knights, and a unit of Reiksguard as well as Demigryphs is great fun. Highly maneuverable, hard-hitting and heavily armored units opens up lots of options for the Empire.
Also, you'll want to get a Captain on Pegasus. This guy(s) (I often take two) are some of the best war machine hunters and can easily clear out chaff. They move around the board easily and can come in on a flank to lend support in cc.
One of my favorite models:
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Post by knoffles on Jun 15, 2017 19:21:30 GMT
I'll bite, where's that peg from?
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Post by mahbruck on Jun 15, 2017 19:34:58 GMT
Empire general's horse head kit in a Brettonian peg body. Nice conversion and painting. Yep, I concur that Pegasus/eagle heroes are given a huge boost in the 8th edition where they get the best wound and armor of horse and rider rolled into one. Any army that can should have at least one, particularly the empire whose scouts are weak, whose light cav are fragile and expensive and who has no decent cheapish flying unit other than this.
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Post by mottdon on Jun 15, 2017 20:37:57 GMT
Mahbruck nailed it. The rider and horse head are from the Empire General's kit. The Pegasus is a Bret Peg. I also used a little Green Stuff to position the wings in a downward flap as well as the rider's lance. It looked much more dynamic to me that way.
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