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Post by strutsagget on Jul 21, 2017 14:11:50 GMT
So i have very little experiance so far. Played 3 games last 30 days but cant remeber if i ever managed to play before that (15 years ago). Our games so far always include a level 4 at 1500 points. So far I have only used Lore of life and all games looking back it feels i would probebly been better of picking dweller and go for it with all dice every turn  if hit, more or less winning game. Feels a little bit like magic is overpowerd at this level and especially the big bombs |
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Post by mottdon on Jul 21, 2017 14:25:44 GMT
The Nuke spells (Dwellers, Purple Sun, Pit of Shades, etc.) are game changers. That's why people 6-dice them. Usually, if someone is banking on getting that spell off, then they'll bring other items on their caster that will mitigate or at least diminish the adverse effects of the inevitable miscast. This means a Talisman of Preservation for a 4++ ward save, the Earthing Rod to change that unfortunate low roll on the Miscast Table so that their caster doesn't get sucked into the warp and removed from the game, etc.
This is a lot of points put into achieving one goal: getting a Nuke off. So if you look at it from that perspective, it's actually fair, because if your opponent manages to stop you form casting it, or you simply can't, then he's probably won the game. It's a big gamble.
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Post by gjnoronh on Jul 21, 2017 15:28:30 GMT
Yes that's true. It also encourages someone playing a list against someone with nuke spell to try and do multiple medium sized units rather then building a single 'deathstar' unit that has all their characters etc. It's actually one of the more elegant bits of game balancing built into 8th's rules IMO. Still not perfect for a variety of reasons but it's a nice piece of the rules set.
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Post by Horace on Jul 21, 2017 20:27:48 GMT
It is a bit of a risk going lvl4 at 1500 I think.
You are basically going all in on magic unless you are playing a horde army with access to very cheap wizards. Take some magic defense, hope for some luck (although I really believe the odds are in your favour of it NOT destroying your army) and go and smash the Lvl4's face in
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Post by strutsagget on Jul 21, 2017 20:32:49 GMT
It is a bit of a risk going lvl4 at 1500 I think. You are basically going all in on magic unless you are playing a horde army with access to very cheap wizards. Take some magic defense, hope for some luck (although I really believe the odds are in your favour of it NOT destroying your army) and go and smash the Lvl4's face in What do/people recommend for magic defense going with wood elves. Last game I was stomped and stomped and stomped from the orc shaman I can run a level 2 with dispel but that leaves most of the other units open to magic. |
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Post by mottdon on Jul 21, 2017 21:23:35 GMT
Pretty much a Dispel Scroll. Everything else is gimmick and way too expensive for what you get. The Channeling Staff can be nice if you have two casters and can spare the extra points, but I wouldn't recommend it at 1500 points.
If you are playing against an O&G army, then you pretty much need to hold your dice waiting for that Foot of Gork spell. Everything else is...meh for O&G magic.
(A trick that some O&G players will do is to run a level 4 Orc Shaman to try and get the Foot spell with him, then a Lv1 Night Goblin Shaman. They'll start with the Goblin (who also can get an extra dice from eating a mushroom), hoping you let it go through, then, with the lore attribute (Sneaky Stealin'), attempt to steal one of your dispel dice and add it to their power dice. If they can manage to do this, it suddenly can become very difficult for you to stop them from having a very effective magic phase.
Hand of Gork is a rather good spell as well because you can suddenly have a horde of Black Orcs or Savage Orcs staring down your flank. This can be tough if you already have someone in your face.
This is all for much higher point games though. I'd probably stick with a level 2 in a 1500 point game.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 21:50:47 GMT
I don't typically run a lvl 4 until 2000+ points. Lately not even then I've been trying things out with a lvl2 and a Chaos Lord instead. I've been having lots of fun.
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Post by Horace on Jul 21, 2017 23:22:20 GMT
Feedback scrolls can be lethal if nicely timed. 50 points though..
edit. although on closer inspection I assume you can't use it if the spell is cast with IF
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Jul 22, 2017 9:42:43 GMT
Feedback scrolls can be lethal if nicely timed. 50 points though.. edit. although on closer inspection I assume you can't use it if the spell is cast with IF I don’t see why not, it’s not as if your trying to dispel the spell. The lore of life is one of those decks where you're better off taking a level 4 mainly as it allows you the chance to get throne of vines. I'm sure I don't have to explain why this is a good thing. Unfortunately you’re up against human nature, if you’re casting a spell and your opponent wants to dispel it they’re wanting to get a bigger bonus then you, it’s always been the case of who carries the bigger stick. Personally the dispel scroll is a default item to any army, with Bret’s I take it and a silver mirror, with dwarves – who technically can’t take it, I take a couple of runes of spell breaking (usually two pairs) but as a cheap addition consider the sceptre of stability, I use it all the time. You add d6 to your dispel attempt but you can roll it AFTER your dispel dice so it’s your one or two behind it can be a life saver. Chaos, one of the few armies I see with little or no magic on occasion, not many armies can drop this phase alongside shooting and be successful but they tend to swamp you with bodies, bodies than have high WS, S, T and multiple attacks. Common to see just a caddy in this sort of thing. I digress… Low level games could be limited to say hero’s only, saying that this would nurf you lore of life. As you say it makes it very rock, paper, scissors, lizard, Spock. The other factor of course is that with shortage of points you’re only likely to have a few potential spells to cast so if you roll a 12/6 phase you’ll be throwing everything at each spell to get it cast. Greg |
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Post by KevinC on Jul 22, 2017 13:49:59 GMT
I'd argue that in 8th edition WFB, you don't need a level 4. For the following reasons:
1. You get the same number of power/dispel dice regardless of your wizard's levels (unlike some prior editions).
2. It's the SPELLS that matter. A level 1 wizard with the Purple Sun is very dangerous indeed (they can still throw six dice at it every turn, and won't be tempted to cast something else because they don't have the option).
3. The most important aspect to wizardry is a wizard's access to spells (A level 1 wizard with the loremaster special rule is potent).
When I buy a wizard lord (i.e. a level 3 wizard), I usually don't upgrade them to level 4. It can be costly and not entirely worth it.
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Post by gjnoronh on Jul 22, 2017 19:59:47 GMT
Yeah but Kevin you are weird. Level 4 was pretty standard in most 2400 lists. More spell choices, +1 to cast and dispel. If you cheap gobbo shamans doesn't matter (and is one of the rare times I took a 3) but if you were talking 1 maybe 2 casters it was usually a 4.
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Jul 22, 2017 20:54:55 GMT
Yes, your point and the most important is the third. If I were to take a level 1 on the lore of life what use this that if I roll Throne of vines? Now If I were level 2 and rolled Throne of vines and flesh to stone that's a huge +4 to toughness and well worth the 35 extra points but I agree (in part) the cost of a level 1 to a level 4 is considerable, for example a level 1 battle wizard (Empire) is 65 points. a level 4 is 200 points, a difference of 135 points. The level 4 is a little tougher but otherwise the same. You'll get a +3 more to cast and access to 3 more spells but that's it.
Going cheap on say gobbos means you'll have a chance to channel more often but whenit comes to dispels, the +4 is in effect a single die roll more. I think if you made a poll on whether or not you take a level 4 in your lists I think the responce would be very high.
Greg
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Jul 22, 2017 21:16:56 GMT
I've used Tetto’eko in games and while he's a Loremaster his level 2 seems to make casting so much harder, and riskier as I know I'll have to use an extra die when casting all of his spells.
Greg
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Post by KevinC on Jul 23, 2017 1:24:33 GMT
Yeah but Kevin you are weird. Level 4 was pretty standard in most 2400 lists. More spell choices, +1 to cast and dispel. If you cheap gobbo shamans doesn't matter (and is one of the rare times I took a 3) but if you were talking 1 maybe 2 casters it was usually a 4. ---------I agree in 2400 I'll typically take a level 4. But I was speaking in terms of smaller games, like 1500 points. A level 4 can certainly be a liability since the winds of magic are not reliable. |
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Post by gjnoronh on Jul 23, 2017 9:54:27 GMT
Whoops my apologies I think with the multiple discussions on magic I lost track of which one I was in!
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if hit, more or less winning game.
