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Post by gregwarhamsters on Jul 22, 2017 11:43:15 GMT
After reading This post I could help but think back on a conversation we'd had at the club but hadn't actually drawn up any conclusion. First of all what's a LARGE game? 3000+ is a Grand army, 4000 per side is considerable but 5K is some serious models. The winds of magic cater for armies up to a Grand (3000+ ponts) level but while the army limitations increase the winds don't. Now that in one sense seems logical, the winds blow at a varied speed anywhere between 2-12 and that’s it. However our group have planned a few games in excess of what would be considered normal point’s levels. 4d6 has been considered with the highest two being dispel dice. Any ideas or suggestions. Greg |
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Post by KevinC on Jul 22, 2017 13:37:52 GMT
In the Storm of Magic rules the Winds of Magic are 4D6, as you describe above. It certainly makes sense to increase the Winds of Magic in larger games, but not required, it all depends on how much you'd like magic to impact the game.
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Post by frozenfood on Jul 22, 2017 14:15:22 GMT
I'm playing 3,5K next week.
What do you think, 2d6 or 2d6 + 1d3 ?
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Jul 22, 2017 15:01:23 GMT
I don't have the storm of magic (don't think anyone in our group does either), is it as decribed 4d6 select the two highest? Is there a point level mentioned or it it any SoM game? I'm playing 3,5K next week. What do you think, 2d6 or 2d6 + 1d3 ? I'd probably just go with 2d6 I was only thinking of points increase at double the normal game points limit, I normally play at 2400 points so I'd look at 5K. Greg |
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Post by knoffles on Jul 22, 2017 17:45:29 GMT
Hi Greg correct that the two highest dice are the dispel dice. I had a brief scan of the book and think it's always 4d6 in SoM
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Post by Naitsabes on Jul 22, 2017 20:09:01 GMT
It certainly makes sense to increase the Winds of Magic in larger games, but not required, it all depends on how much you'd like magic to impact the game. This. I have played lots of 5K+ games, both with 2D6 and 4D6. Personally I like staying at 2D6 better as it does tone down magic but, it's a matter of taste. Something to consider: if you don't increase table size (and sometimes even if you do), there will be more models per square inch of table. Now certain spells become much more powerful, e.g. the ones that affect everybody in X inch. Think that horrible, horrible Slanesh spell that makes everybody in 12(?)" random move D6 is bad? See how you suffer in a 5K game if it goes off. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 1:43:47 GMT
I would only increase the size of the winds if you want magic to have a bigger impact on the game.
I'm personally a fan of leaving it at 2D6 and just taking a couple extra wizards to have more board presence; but capping winds at 2D6 encourages more fighty characters and monsters. That to me is a win.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 1:52:02 GMT
I just had a thought:
Could you imagine dwarves in 5000 points!?
I brought 8 runesmiths/runelords and every single on of them has 1, some of them 2 runes of spellbreaking.
Yeah that's right; 8 dispel scrolls in 5000 points and 4 of them can potentially destroy a spell.
Ouch.
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Jul 23, 2017 7:46:14 GMT
I just had a thought: Could you imagine dwarves in 5000 points!? Which is where I'm going with the increased magical dice, we've already played an 11,000 point game and it's not hard to proxy/convert a dwarf into a rune smith but unless I'm playing against WoC that could potentially drop the magic phase I'm most likely to shut down my opponents phase. First I see them roll six dice at something, use a rune and by the law of averages I now have more dice than he does, with the rune of Valaya I match his caster and hopefully dispel his spell. His tactic then becomes needing irresistible force to get a spell off, which of course runs its own risks. Losing the spell and levels, losing models or of course losing the caster completely. If I increased the winds of magic they still run the risk of me dispelling the spell but with more dice available they (I believe) stand more of a chance in getting spells off, or them going magic lite while I go magic heavy and waste points. Greg |
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Post by mottdon on Jul 24, 2017 14:48:01 GMT
Well, if you increase the winds of magic, maybe you should also increase the # of Dispel Scrolls taken accordingly as well. That would avoid the obvious lack of magic defense. It might be good to say +1 Dispel Scroll in games over X points. Essentially that would be expanding the magic phase to fit the size of the game.
And I know it's not ideal, or nearly as good as it was in previous editions, but have you thought about taking the Anvil of Doom in larger 5000+ games? Maybe 2 or more? Could be fun and unexpected.
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Post by dannytee on Jul 27, 2017 0:17:20 GMT
Personally I would say 5,000 points or more is where I would start to consider adding additional power/dispel dice beyond the 2d6 power. At 3,000 points 2d6 certainly works very well still. And yes, in the storm of magic book all storm of magic games are 4d6 power dice and the highest 2d6 as dispel dice.
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Post by frozenfood on Jul 27, 2017 11:57:23 GMT
2d6 in 3500 points game worked fine. He had an extra die and 5 channelers so had enough dice each round  |
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Post by grandmasterwang on Aug 6, 2017 6:44:47 GMT
Well, if you increase the winds of magic, maybe you should also increase the # of Dispel Scrolls taken accordingly as well. That would avoid the obvious lack of magic defense. It might be good to say +1 Dispel Scroll in games over X points. Essentially that would be expanding the magic phase to fit the size of the game. And I know it's not ideal, or nearly as good as it was in previous editions, but have you thought about taking the Anvil of Doom in larger 5000+ games? Maybe 2 or more? Could be fun and unexpected. I have played a 6000 point battle with my dwarfs. Took the High King and Thorek. Also had 2 runesmiths to help shutdown magic. My opponent (Chaos) ended up going magic light which surprised me so I was very glad I didn't go heavyweight magic defence as it would have been wasted. We played 2d6 winds as standard. My opponent was definitely very disappointed I didn't have more magic defence characters and runes. Thankfully the ("uncompetitive") High King basically won me the game by giving my whole army hatred (wouldn't have been armywide without him) and making my 40 ranger GW horde an absolute nightmare. If I had gone something like 8 runesmiths/lords with multiple dispells/magic shutdown items I would almost certainly have been rolled due to lack of bodies on the board. Runesmiths add up quickly once you include runes and while the AP is nice the Smiths themselves do very little offensively (at least for me) generally. Good times.... i need to start busting out my dwarfs again. At 3k points i still think 2d6 winds works best. Above I can see the option for 4d6 being very valid. |
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Aug 8, 2017 10:03:40 GMT
Your opponent was obviously counting on you taking a shed load of points to counter his magic phase, as you know there are loads of combinations of either a single rune or two runes of spell breaking and very easy to combo up. In a 2400 list I like taking two rune smiths both with two runes, basically giving me that extra when it’s needed, I like the idea of actually getting rid of a spell. Yes it’s made my dwarf list a little predictable within the group and as such, some people have gone magic light (or not at all) thing is rune smiths have the armour piercing rule which is rather neat and thus not a complete waste of time.
Turning the clock back, 6th edition vampire counts needed a necromancer but in one of the add on books there was a way they could go vampire heavy, they had tomb stone markers that cast a bound level spell to create skeletons or zombies. Using the rune of Valaya, runes of balance, anvil and whatever else I had at my disposal I could match the bound level casting by rolling a single die. Shut him down completely – or so I thought. He just rolled more dice and came up with more double sixes than double ones. I’ve never gone that magic defence heavy since. Sure if you know you’re coming up against an army that needs magic, Tomb Kings spring to mind as they need the hierophant then sure it’s a good idea to take a magic defence but not always – for the reasons you’ve discussed.
Dwarves are one of the reasons why I asked about 4d6 as they’d not find it easy to control the phase in larger games. Same can be said about dispel scrolls though. My 6th edition Bret list had two damsels both having a pair of dispel scrolls. I’d shut you down in the turn I’m praying then hopefully get a charge against you.
It’s all about balance, something to house rule I expect.
Greg
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