|
Post by dannytee on Aug 11, 2015 22:10:53 GMT
Does anyone feel they should be fast cavalry? I would say no.
|
|
|
Post by wilsonthenarc on Aug 12, 2015 1:35:10 GMT
Monstrous Cavalry. Wolverines, OK. Badgers, OK. All other Cav need not apply.
|
|
|
Post by avatarofbugman on Aug 12, 2015 1:54:23 GMT
They are nowhere near large enough for monstrous cav. I'll be buying some later in the month. If Imma gonna maka list, I needa maka the models.
|
|
|
Post by KevinC on Aug 12, 2015 3:35:00 GMT
Avatar, looks cool!
My initial thoughts:
Ungrim Incarnate of Fire should def be included in the list. Simply - what if a player wants to use this army list during an End Times game and wishes to use the Incarnate version of Ungrim, why not?
I think you should make a list of a all the units that may be chosen in the army and divide them in Core, Special, Rare, etc. Similar to what I did in the variant army lists in Warhammer: GROM. It just makes it clearer on what units are allowed. Have a line noting where the units come from, i.e. Unit entries not found in this document are found in the following army books or expansions: Warhammer: Dwarfs (marked 'D'), Warhammer: Thanquol (marked 'T'), etc.
In example:
LORDS Ungrim Ironfist (D or T) Garagrim Ironfist Daemon Slayer (D)
First to the Blood: I like that it works like a random Vanguard move. Interesting.
The Goblin Hewer: I always liked this war machine. I'm not sure I understand how it works though - D3 hits per rank, how/why does it go to 4D3 or 5D3? Because of how wide the unit is?
Wolverines: I do think they might be good with 1 attack, plus Frenzy for two. Remember even vicious Cold Ones only have 1 attack. 3 S4 attacks from the mount alone is really good. Back in the day, Cold Ones had two S4 attacks – they were totally nuts. In 6th edition they dropped to 1 attack. Also I think you should change the name. Instead of Giant Wolverines, I think they should have some Dwarven-style name.
Overall looks cool.
|
|
|
Post by wilsonthenarc on Aug 12, 2015 12:01:26 GMT
Also I think you should change the name. Instead of Giant Wolverines, I think they should have some Dwarven-style name. Gravelbrocks Boulderbrocks? Gravelgluttons (Wolverine actually means "Glutton") Some actual wolverine names: Fjeldfross, Vielfrass, Jarfi (Jarfi sounds reasonably Dwarven)
|
|
|
Post by avatarofbugman on Aug 12, 2015 12:45:11 GMT
Kevin, thanks for the input. I'm definitely making the Wolverines 1 attack plus Frenzy. I'll look for a different name. The Hewer I'm going to change to d3 shooting attack per rank to represent the flurry of axes coming through the air at the,. I'll write that in the description. I'll also put a little list in the beginning of the list to denote all the units available. Thanks again. This has been a fun challenge so far.
|
|
|
Post by mottdon on Aug 12, 2015 13:39:56 GMT
The Tomb Kings do have a special rule for their BSB. Any unit within 12" of the BSB will take one less wound from the Unstable special rule.
Maybe you could make it something similar but in relation to the Deathblow special rule. Instead of making one S5 attack, they get the option to instead make two S4 attacks.
-OR-
Units within 12" of the BSB, after making their one Deathblow roll, on a result of 6, the model is saved by Grungni, ignoring the potentially fatal wound and urged to fight on with greater fervor.
|
|
|
Post by mottdon on Aug 12, 2015 14:02:23 GMT
As far as the Ungrim Incarnate of Fire, I think you should definitely have an option to take him, but not just Ungrim. Make a generic lord incarnate as well. Simply the Incarnate of Fire. That way, you could have Ungrim AND an Incarnate of Fire in the same list. This might actually be good to have since this is solely a Slayer army. You might want to change some of the special weapons/armor to something more Incarnate-specific. Such as: Axes of Forge Fire - literally paired axes made of fire that inflict fire damage, and any successful hit against magical armor renders it mundane equipment, sapping it's magical properties. This seems to fit into the anti-magic theme of the Dwarfs to me. Flame Whip - Range 12". The Incarnate may make a single ranged attack each shooting phase as he cracks his whip of fire. Burning Rage - Models in base contact with the Incarnate at the end of close combat suffer a S5 hit from the Incarnate's red-hot aura. Wall of Flame - the Incarnate calls forth a burning wall of hot magma to erupt from the ground. Range 12". Heavy cover. The "wall" is to be 100mm long. Any unit moving through the magma, friend or foe, must take a Dangerous Terrain test. On a 4+ they fail the test. Models who are immune to fire may ignore this test.) Internal Fire of the Ancestors - Provides the Incarnate with a 5++ ward save as the heat from ancient forges melt incoming attacks before they can find their mark.
While the Ungrim Incarnate of Fire is an offensive Incarnate option, this one would be more defensive. Just nice to have options.
|
|
|
Post by mottdon on Aug 12, 2015 14:23:17 GMT
Something else, is the "First to the Blood" optional? Or is it mandantory? That could be a blessing or a curse.
As for the Goblin Hewer, maybe there should be some penalty for hitting additional ranks though? The same way a bolt thrower can pierce ranks, but is -1 for each rank it punches through, with each additional rank, the throws become less and less accurate and should probably end at 4 ranks. Say you went up against 50 Skaven Slaves 5-wide. That would mean a potential for doing as much as 30 wounds with one attack. That's a little crazy. Taking 4-12 models off for 4 ranks isn't unheard of though.
|
|
|
Post by avatarofbugman on Aug 12, 2015 15:19:43 GMT
The "First to the Blood" rule is mandatory. You did want a slayer army. I don't see much curse. The Hewer is the only ranged option and there is no magic to speak of. Close combat is your friend.
I hesitate to modify the strength of the Hewer. It is only strength 4 to start with. In your example it is 30 hits, but realistically only 15 wounds. I always saw the Hewer as a mix between a bolt thrower and a stone thrower. Now that I say that, the original way I recorded the rule makes the most sense. What about removing the extra armor piercing so there is only a -1 save due to the strength?
I will include Ungrim Incarnate, but without access to his rules I am wary of making a generic one to include alongside, although it is a cool thought. Do you see a need to create another special character? With Ungrim, Incarnate and Garage I'm there are already 3. Also, I was toying with the idea of Junior Slayers as Core, kind of like the difference between warriors and longbeards. I was thinking they would be new enough to be stubborn instead of unbreakable and their points would be around 10.
|
|
|
Post by mottdon on Aug 12, 2015 16:52:51 GMT
Well, honestly I was thinking of the "Incarnate of Fire" as more "The Spirit of Grungni" taking over a Dwarf. I never really have liked the idea of a Dwarf getting a winds of magic. That just feels wrong to me, even though I understand the need for representation. I just like the idea of Grungni taking over a Dwarf Hero and leading him to do great things. That's why I don't necessarily like it being limited to Ungrim.
That's fine with the hewer. I was just throwing out something else to think about. I would remove the armor piercing though.
As for the "First to the Blood" curse I was talking about, if you say have 5 units of Slayers for example and 4 of them roll poorly (all 1's) for their 3D6 movement, and one rolls insanely high (all 6's) then they're kinda left wide open, but that might be a cool drawback to have to consider. Not every army rule has to be completely one sided. Look at O&G Animosity Rule. I'd say Slayers would not always have high regard for tactics.
|
|
|
Post by Anton on Aug 12, 2015 16:54:06 GMT
Ungrim was the only Dwarf to ever be the Incarnate of Fire (it went to an Elf when he died) so I don't see a reason to include a generic option.
The Goblin Hewer is fine. The list has no access to other war machines or magic to deal with huge units. If the Goblin Hewer presents such a threat you're free to deploy those Slaves/Goblins in a wider formation. And that's from a Goblin player.
|
|
|
Post by mottdon on Aug 12, 2015 17:18:15 GMT
It's all take it or leave it advice.
Are you thinking that there will be only one Goblin Hewer per army? I could totally see someone building a list that had two or three of these in them. Maybe you make it so that one Goblin Hewer in your army can be upgraded to have Malakai?
|
|
|
Post by avatarofbugman on Aug 12, 2015 19:26:19 GMT
Mottdon, I totally appreciate the advice. It is making me think things over anothet another dozen times. The real test will be when some of these are actually used. Then I will know where to go.
|
|
|
Post by dannytee on Aug 13, 2015 0:24:56 GMT
Also, I was toying with the idea of Junior Slayers as Core, kind of like the difference between warriors and longbeards. I was thinking they would be new enough to be stubborn instead of unbreakable and their points would be around 10. I'm not sure if such a slayer would exist (the junior slayers that is). With how stubborn dwarves are to being with it seems to me that once a dwarf takes the slayer oath they would already be unbreakable. Related to this, what is the background behind The Brotherhood of Grimnir? It is basically a unit of giant slayers, right? Do you envision a specific set of minis for this unit?
|
|