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Post by sonofkurnos on Nov 28, 2022 13:14:32 GMT
The fact this 'discussion' has gone on for 60 replies is a very clear indicator that we are ready for a new edition...
Don't you guys have any painting to do?? 🫤
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Post by DiscoQing on Nov 28, 2022 13:51:49 GMT
Always!
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Post by thegoat on Nov 28, 2022 14:06:11 GMT
You say, "Elves and Goblins can be in no way shape or form considered models of the same type." What are you talking about? The "Fear Elves" rule does not affect goblins. It affects Elves and only Elves.Ah... no? It appears nowhere in their rules that they cause fear in goblins. It's a conditional special rule on the goblins, which activates when elves are involved. Nothing changes about the ELVES, just the GOBLINS. There are no rules in the game for fearing a unit that doesn't have the Fear special rule. The Fear Elves special rule gives Elf units the BRB Fear rule. It flat out says, "Elves cause Fear...". If they cause Fear, it is because they have gained the Fear rule. Further more the Fear section on BRB page 69, talks about "...enemy models that cause Fear..." So to suffer from Fear it is a requirement that the enemy models have the Fear rule.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Nov 28, 2022 14:35:49 GMT
The fact this 'discussion' has gone on for 60 replies is a very clear indicator that we are ready for a new edition... Don't you guys have any painting to do?? 🫤 To be fair: it turned into a three-in-one discussion: Hobgoblins, Fear Elves and Hatred (xxx). Edit: A four-in-one. I forgot Chaos Dwarfs. Although the original question of baaderthegreat has been solved, here is another observation regarding Hobgoblins: in the 6th edition Ravening Hordes, Chaos Dwarfs could take not just Hobgoblins, but actual Orcs and Goblins too, right out of the Orcs & Goblins army list, and the Chaos Dwarf army special rules made it clear that Hobgoblins did not fall under Goblins.
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Post by vulcan on Nov 29, 2022 4:16:45 GMT
It's also worth mentioning that (IIRC) somewhere in the various FAQ and Errata is says something along the line of 'a rule that cannot be played has been interpreted incorrectly' or some such. So if your logic makes 'fears elves' unplayable, you have not understood the rule.
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Post by thegoat on Nov 29, 2022 12:16:07 GMT
It's also worth mentioning that (IIRC) somewhere in the various FAQ and Errata is says something along the line of 'a rule that cannot be played has been interpreted incorrectly' or some such. So if your logic makes 'fears elves' unplayable, you have not understood the rule. Yes, I agree. All I'm trying to point out is that particular FAQ answer is written poorly and is open to exploitation.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Nov 30, 2022 16:44:33 GMT
Nor does Grom's Axe, for that matter. The problem remains the same: there is no Elves AB, and there is nowhere a definition what an Elf is supposed to be. Invoking RAI here is definitely not applying Occam's Razor, because normally we have no way of knowing what the writer intended, and we are just exchanging a lack of wording for pure speculation. Applying Occam's Razor " pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate" (plurality should not be posited without necessity) means applying existing rules, not inventing a new one. To add a final note: I went through the ABs of the different Elves (something I should have done before) to look which "non-Elf" units the Goblins would not need to fear. Unless I missed anything, there is only a single one in each AB: Great Eagles in HE & WE, Harpies in DE. Occam's Razor shaves again: there is really no need to invent an extra rule for a single unit in each AB, if the existing rule works just fine. But as always: if you and your opponent agree, feel free to play it differently.
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Post by KevinC on Dec 2, 2022 5:24:00 GMT
Hi all,
I'd like to chime in on this....but what are the current questions???
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Post by sonofkurnos on Dec 2, 2022 6:10:51 GMT
Hi all, I'd like to chime in on this....but what are the current questions??? The answer to that question has been nearly lost to the annals of time... Bards sing of it, scholars study great stone tablets depicting it... Some say nagash muttered it in a dream once...
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