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Post by seacap on Mar 28, 2023 16:28:00 GMT
Hi,
Yes, all ExFlames in the same unit. Obviously adapted to the situation if needed. So far I have used a 5 sized unit, but I would like to try a 3 sized with a champion next time. The Flamers themselves really only need to be there to convey the skirmish ability. Also, this time I will try with the champion, with BS 5 he may actually be able to hit something. The difference between 4 and 5 is quite considerable.
So far I have had much difficulties to threaten my usual opponents armies. He play OK, WoC, DE and HE... Yes I know, only high tier armies. I have only played a low tier army once, OnG, and then I won.
In my last game (2250p) against WoC (nurgle) I actually was able to dish out considerable damage to him with the ExFlamers (learning the timing) but then my DP was killed by a cannonball and game over. Lessons learned, LoC is more durable.
Otherwise a really like WandOfWimp, when the stats is up to 10 you really rock the boat.
The BoneClaw is also a must to threaten big tough low I models that otherwise is a drain for spells.
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Post by jamesacon on Mar 29, 2023 3:19:44 GMT
Thanks again for your posts! Are your ex-flamers on 50mm bases?
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Post by seacap on Mar 29, 2023 5:50:11 GMT
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Post by jukei on Apr 14, 2023 8:53:54 GMT
Hi all, Long time reader, first time writer. I have tried to play my mono TZE inspired by this thread (not every iteration) and must say I agree with most arguments. One selection that I can't see that you tried is multi-exalted flamers in a flamers unit. This grants the ex-flamers skirmish and the possibility to march and shoot. So far it has been quite effective when I have tried. Another selection, to counter the core point give away, is the Portalglyph combined with a big unit Pinks. This combo, although expensive, provides a possibility to hide/evade the Pinks to be inevitable destroyed and actually could give them a chance to win some point back. I would be happy to hear your thoughts Hi , I am very glad someone like you is adding his insights and tactical ideas in this thread. Welcome !!!! I didn' t analyze and talk about this use of ex flamers for some reasons. 1) a unit with 3 ex flamers +3 flamers costs around 400 pts. ( iI think it 's too much ) 2) range with flamers and ex flamers is limited even if you consider their mobility 3) shooting will not win you games ( and this valid for all armies or most of them). Moreover, the randomic Strenght D6 of the teardrop template makes them not so reliable. 4) if an opponent's unit charges this unit we can't stand and shot ( slow to fire) 5) if we are charged we cannot fee as a reaction to a charge So once we are in melee the unit will - not fire anymore - die in 1 or 2 turns 6) I think 1 soulgrinder + 1 Loc is not enough to win anygame My conclusions after several tests is that we need 2 Lords and 1 soulgrinder ( or 2) + a unit of horrors quite big which will be buffed with Lore of metal spells and with herald with Loci in it in order to make it more "dangerous." I will playtest my list more and after I will be glad to update the thread with my results. It's just my 2 cent . so take it for what it is :-) keep us update about your games please!! Jukei
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Post by johngg on Apr 14, 2023 14:57:38 GMT
I have to admint, its A LOT of firepower however we're talking about a unit which is in the region of 400 odd points. I'm a big fan of Flamers and this would put out A LOT of damage in the short range. You can think of it like 3 Helblasters in area denial mode. They will certainly deny the enemy the board, which in certain circumstances would be hugely beneficial, however you can just see them being blown away by anything even resembling armour.
in fact, I've just found a use for all my Empire Knights!!
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Post by seacap on May 4, 2023 19:43:03 GMT
Many thanks for the replies and the warm welcome.
I basically agree with your comments, this is not an easy win strategy and it is also weak towards certain builds. However, compared to the alternatives, i.e., the chariot or flamers, it is much more competitive. It also brings some much needed flexibility. 1. "Shaff", each ex-flamer can in addition to its main "shooter" function act as a redirecter. More expensive than harpies, sure, but those cannot hurt anything. 2. The possibility to shoot either grape or flame together with the march-n-shoot rule is key, this provides a possibility to punch trough a heavy armour flank with grape (S=d6+3) and then advance on the soft flanks of centre horde. However, depending on the opposition you may need patience or support (magic). 3. Missile protection, due to skirmish (-1) and distribute hits. 4. Avoid all eggs in the "magic basket", i.e., distribute points to the shooting phase.
But as you both point out, they doesn't stand in a fight. We need DP/LoC and SGs for this.
Ok, I have been able to test this strategy once since last. 1 vs DEs. Uphill from second turn as my general (DP) got killed from doombolts to the head. The ex-flamers did quite well, almost punched through the right flank. However, due to suboptimal combat support (embarrassing manoeuvres) and target selection (should have focused magic to support them) they could not provide enough damage to save the day.
Given the opponent I am not super disappointed. I made some evident mistakes, from which I hopefully will learn. In my last games it was also evident how much that are invested in quite soft DPs. Hence, I would like to try the LoC. Oh, I should also add that my co-gamers are quite reluctant to use the 50% lords update (prefer 25% old school).
I will continue to try the ex-flames for some games more and keep you updated.
Until next time
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Post by jukei on May 9, 2023 6:55:33 GMT
Many thanks for the replies and the warm welcome. I basically agree with your comments, this is not an easy win strategy and it is also weak towards certain builds. However, compared to the alternatives, i.e., the chariot or flamers, it is much more competitive. It also brings some much needed flexibility. 1. "Shaff", each ex-flamer can in addition to its main "shooter" function act as a redirecter. More expensive than harpies, sure, but those cannot hurt anything. 2. The possibility to shoot either grape or flame together with the march-n-shoot rule is key, this provides a possibility to punch trough a heavy armour flank with grape (S=d6+3) and then advance on the soft flanks of centre horde. However, depending on the opposition you may need patience or support (magic). 3. Missile protection, due to skirmish (-1) and distribute hits. 4. Avoid all eggs in the "magic basket", i.e., distribute points to the shooting phase. But as you both point out, they doesn't stand in a fight. We need DP/LoC and SGs for this. Ok, I have been able to test this strategy once since last. 1 vs DEs. Uphill from second turn as my general (DP) got killed from doombolts to the head. The ex-flamers did quite well, almost punched through the right flank. However, due to suboptimal combat support (embarrassing manoeuvres) and target selection (should have focused magic to support them) they could not provide enough damage to save the day. Given the opponent I am not super disappointed. I made some evident mistakes, from which I hopefully will learn. In my last games it was also evident how much that are invested in quite soft DPs. Hence, I would like to try the LoC. Oh, I should also add that my co-gamers are quite reluctant to use the 50% lords update (prefer 25% old school). I will continue to try the ex-flames for some games more and keep you updated. Until next time Mono tzeentch it's a very challenging army to play and DE are tough.:-) My take on Lord ( if you have to keep the 25% points ) is the following one: Lord - Daemon prince General , chaos Armour, exalted Gift, mark of tzeentch. 355 points - Daemon Prince mark of tzeentch 260 points 615 pointsThey are our only possibile "hitters" together with the Soul Grinder Magic is managed by several heralds of tzeentch lev 2 My personal experience is that investing in a LoC lev 4 makes the list weaker . He is our Wizard , General and main source of damage but once you lost him ...is game over.
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Post by franz1980pl on May 9, 2023 7:08:17 GMT
Hi I am prepaqring for a tournament 2023 pkt. Will try a mono khorne army wht do you thing of my list ? any advise is welcome and thanks in advance
Unnamed2023 Pts - Daemons of Chaos Army
1 Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury @ 400.0 Pts 2ndWeapon; Heavy Armour
1 Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury @ 400.0 Pts General; 2ndWeapon; Heavy Armour
32 Bloodletters of Khorne @ 507.0 Pts Standard; Musician Banner of Swiftness [15.0]
1 Bloodreaper @ [10.0] Pts
3 Bloodcrushers of Khorne @ 195.0 Pts
3 Juggernaut of Khorne @ [0.0] Pts
1 Skulltaker @ 250.0 Pts Lesser Locus of Abjuration #The Slayer Sword [0.0] #Cloak of Skulls [0.0]
1 Juggernaut of Khorne @ [0.0] Pts
1 Skull Cannon of Khorne @ 135.0 Pts Bloodletter crew
2 Bloodletter Crew @ [0.0] Pts
1 Skull Cannon of Khorne @ 135.0 Pts Bloodletter crew
2 Bloodletter Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Models in Army: 36
Total Army Cost: 2022.0
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Post by seacap on May 11, 2023 19:47:58 GMT
Thanks jukei,
Yes, you are probably right. Will see if I can get a 2500p game going anytime soon
For some reason we have been playing 2250pt games..
Anyways, so perhaps I will go for a list of 2s next time. 2 DP, 2 SG, 2 Exflames, 2 Heralds... hmm yes.. looks OK. Then it's just to decide strategy for the Pinks. I have been longing to test hiding them all in the PGlyph as ultimat points denial... but I would probably be scorned for that.
Cheers
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Post by jukei on May 12, 2023 12:25:12 GMT
Thanks jukei, Yes, you are probably right. Will see if I can get a 2500p game going anytime soon For some reason we have been playing 2250pt games.. Anyways, so perhaps I will go for a list of 2s next time. 2 DP, 2 SG, 2 Exflames, 2 Heralds... hmm yes.. looks OK. Then it's just to decide strategy for the Pinks. I have been longing to test hiding them all in the PGlyph as ultimat points denial... but I would probably be scorned for that. Cheers You are welcome! :-) You need to experiment and this will make you motivated to improve your list. I was now playing with army builder and I was thinking about a list (Warhammer Fantasy 8th ed) [2,249pts] ++ End Times (Daemons of Chaos - Army Book (2013-4) -V8.8.0.) [2,249pts] ++ + Lords [560pts] + Daemon Prince [280pts]: Chaos armour [20pts], Daemon of Tzeentch [10pts] Daemon Prince [280pts]: Chaos armour [20pts], Daemon of Tzeentch [10pts] ( Here I feel the miss of Chromatic tome which I suggest you using when you will play 2500 pts list) + Heroes [455pts] + Exalted Flamer (Battlescroll) [90pts] Exalted Flamer (Battlescroll) [90pts] Herald of Tzeentch [125pts]: Lore of Metal, Wizard Level 2 [35pts] Herald of Tzeentch [150pts]: Battle Standard Bearer [25pts], Lore of Metal, Wizard Level 2 [35pts] ( BSB is useful . Having 4 spells from Lore of Metal ...It's very good we have answers vs heavy armour we can improve the shooting phase we have a nuke spell we can improve armour save of our DP or SG ..and so on ) + Core [564pts] + Pink Horrors of Tzeentch [199pts]: Lore of Tzeentch, 13x Pink Horror of Tzeentch [169pts], Wizard Level 1 . Musician [10pts] . Standard Bearer [20pts]: BRB - Banner of Eternal Flame [10pts] Pink Horrors of Tzeentch [176pts]: Lore of Tzeentch, Musician [10pts], 12x Pink Horror of Tzeentch [156pts], Standard Bearer [10pts], Wizard Level 1 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch [189pts]: Lore of Tzeentch, Musician [10pts], 13x Pink Horror of Tzeentch [169pts], Standard Bearer [10pts], Wizard Level 1 + Rare [320pts] +
Soul Grinder [320pts]: Daemon of Tzeentch [10pts], Daemonbone Claw [10pts], Phlegm Bombardment [50pts] A war machine can help us . We will have on avaerage 2 turns for shooting but a lucky shot S 9 ( d6) on the right target can help us a lot and It's fitting with the shooting theme of the army list. + Special [350pts] + Chaos Furies [70pts] . 5x Chaos Fury [70pts]: 5x Daemons of Tzeentch [10pts] Chaos Furies [70pts] . 5x Chaos Fury [70pts]: 5x Daemons of Tzeentch [10pts] Flamers of Tzeentch [210pts]: Champion [10pts], 5x Flamer of Tzeentch [200pts] It's just a possible list . I just hope you will like it Cheers
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Post by jukei on May 12, 2023 12:46:40 GMT
Hi I am prepaqring for a tournament 2023 pkt. Will try a mono khorne army wht do you thing of my list ? any advise is welcome and thanks in advance Unnamed2023 Pts - Daemons of Chaos Army 1 Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury @ 400.0 Pts 2ndWeapon; Heavy Armour 1 Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury @ 400.0 Pts General; 2ndWeapon; Heavy Armour 32 Bloodletters of Khorne @ 507.0 Pts Standard; Musician Banner of Swiftness [15.0] 1 Bloodreaper @ [10.0] Pts 3 Bloodcrushers of Khorne @ 195.0 Pts 3 Juggernaut of Khorne @ [0.0] Pts 1 Skulltaker @ 250.0 Pts Lesser Locus of Abjuration #The Slayer Sword [0.0] #Cloak of Skulls [0.0] 1 Juggernaut of Khorne @ [0.0] Pts 1 Skull Cannon of Khorne @ 135.0 Pts Bloodletter crew 2 Bloodletter Crew @ [0.0] Pts 1 Skull Cannon of Khorne @ 135.0 Pts Bloodletter crew 2 Bloodletter Crew @ [0.0] Pts Models in Army: 36 Total Army Cost: 2022.0 Hi , I like the list if you play at 2000 pts maybe drop a cannon and add - furies as chaff ( you will need them) - standard bearers ( in some scenarios you must have some) - add some other bloodletters ( with points left ) Let me know thanks for writing ! Cheers Jukei
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Post by jukei on Feb 10, 2024 12:15:46 GMT
Hi everyone, My journey has been going on and I could test and play more my mono tzeentch army. I did several changes and if some of you will show interest I am going to update this thread sharing my last battles , my failures,my new list and my new insights.
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