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Post by tileag on May 4, 2020 19:10:25 GMT
They wouldn't be OP, but it wouldn't fit with the fluff of what Beastmen are. Leadership is a measure of how "courageous, determined, and self-controlled" a model is (WFB rulebook quote) and lower values aren't just due to cowardice - they're due to being "unruly" too*. Beastmen are the very definition of unruly. Ld 10 is reserved for only the bravest, most intelligent, and disciplined leaders - centuries old Dawi Lords, Elven Princes, Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts. Beastlords, like Orc Warbosses, Empire Generals, Ogre Tyrants and even Slann Mage-Priests, don't fit in that group. Beastmen definitely need improving, but Leadership is not one of the appropriate areas for it. Or their stats for the most part; it's points, options and army make-up that need reviewing. *Reflected in things like testing Leadership for marching close to enemy units, restraining pursuit, or frenzied units not charging. Im also very ok with this |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on May 4, 2020 20:50:37 GMT
Seems like the topic of this thread went from "best to worst" to "bestigorst" armies....
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beastyboy
Full Member
5th eddition lizardmen !
Posts: 198
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Post by beastyboy on May 5, 2020 10:02:31 GMT
They wouldn't be OP, but it wouldn't fit with the fluff of what Beastmen are. Leadership is a measure of how "courageous, determined, and self-controlled" a model is (WFB rulebook quote) and lower values aren't just due to cowardice - they're due to being "unruly" too*. Beastmen are the very definition of unruly. Ld 10 is reserved for only the bravest, most intelligent, and disciplined leaders - centuries old Dawi Lords, Elven Princes, Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts. Beastlords, like Orc Warbosses, Empire Generals, Ogre Tyrants and even Slann Mage-Priests, don't fit in that group. Beastmen definitely need improving, but Leadership is not one of the appropriate areas for it. Or their stats for the most part; it's points, options and army make-up that need reviewing. *Reflected in things like testing Leadership for marching close to enemy units, restraining pursuit, or frenzied units not charging. Im also very ok with this like strength 4 elves ... |
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Post by DiscoQing on May 6, 2020 1:06:41 GMT
I never understood why elf heroes couldn't be T4 after 5th ed...
I mean they're better fighters than humans & longer lived (Resilient/experienced, etc), yet an Empire Wizard lord is T4, lol.
A Goblin/Skaven Hero is T4.
"Elves are squishy", I get it.
Surely Goblin, skaven and human heroes are just as squishy?? Hehe
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Post by grandmasterwang on May 6, 2020 14:52:46 GMT
I never understood why elf heroes couldn't be T4 after 5th ed... I mean they're better fighters than humans & longer lived (Resilient/experienced, etc), yet an Empire Wizard lord is T4, lol. A Goblin/Skaven Hero is T4. "Elves are squishy", I get it. Surely Goblin, skaven and human heroes are just as squishy?? Hehe I've always seen them as being glass jawed. They may be more mentally resilient than a human wizard but in my head I picture them that if you could actually land a clean hit on them it would do some real damage. Even an elf like Tyrion would crumple if hit enough. The problem is actually hitting the swift and sneaky buggers. That's how I see it anyway and am glad they are all toughness 3. Nothing to so with competitiveness or balance but it matches how I see them in my lore. Malekith is if I recall is the only toughness 4 elf and he's a special snowflake Regarding a goblin hero being tougher than an elf...I certainly agree with that. Some goblins survive being punted around by trolls and giants and the like. As you say elves are better fighters than humans (and skaven and goblins and the like) and imo this is appropriately expessed with their high WS, initiative, special rules and equivalent strength. For the record I'm fine with Beastlord's being leadership 9 (rather than 10) as it also reflects how I see them in the lore. I can't remember if Gorthor the Beastlord is Leadership 10 but he should be as like Malekith he's a unique case. We play Bestigor as leadership 8. It started because I always forgot they weren't but it makes sense to us lore wise and now has become a thing. On the topic of Beastmen again  Below is a link to the Jabberslythe tweaks that we use. eefl.freeforums.net/thread/249/..and this is a link to an extra monster option that they have. eefl.freeforums.net/thread/330/druk-meathulk |
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Post by stallion12 on Jan 17, 2023 6:23:12 GMT
If GW hadn't wasted so much of their time and effort doting on Warriors of Chaos and Dark Elves there would have been month slots in their release schedule for both Bretonnia and Beastmen, so there's no excuse. Hey, it's not the Druchii to blame! Blame GW's fixation on space marines. Or AoS. What bothered me was the lame excuse that GW apparently gave for not updating Brets - they didn't know how to progress them. Total War Warhammer blew that idea firmly out the water with their take on Brets. Personally, I wish that GW would have skipped the End Times and in its place would have released 8th edition books for Skaven, Beastmen and Bretonnia [and one final faq/errata for all the books]. It would have been nice for them to leave WFB with a completed edition. Or at least completed the three first. Always wished they released the last 3 as lists in white dwarf. Then one final erreta, could have topped it off in an issue or two. |
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Post by Luigino on Jan 18, 2023 2:38:54 GMT
The only true ranking is the following:
1) my army
2) the ones that are not my army
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Post by Grimfang Gogulk on Feb 1, 2023 11:22:37 GMT
Hehe, true. lol Da Stunties for example, are cheesy when they shoot at my boyz, but then not cheesy when da boyz get up close and bash dem. Except when they then are cheesy and don´t run and hit back..  If da stunties are cheesy and not run but bash da ladz, we advance backwards and come back fer anuvver go.. Da Stunties are good skumgrods, always put up a good fight..
The best balance I ever felt in WFB was when 6th Ed was released and we had Ravening Hordes and then up until a bit into the release. Maybe the Skaven started to push it a bit too much, but for the most part it felt nice. Very subjective though but it was far from the later power creep.. (IMHO again) |
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If da stunties are cheesy and not run but bash da ladz, we advance backwards and come back fer anuvver go..