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Post by sedge on Apr 21, 2020 16:46:28 GMT
Hey, it's not the Druchii to blame! Blame GW's fixation on space marines. Or AoS. What bothered me was the lame excuse that GW apparently gave for not updating Brets - they didn't know how to progress them. Total War Warhammer blew that idea firmly out the water with their take on Brets. I haven't followed total war. What did they do? They definitely needed something. The last version was pretty bland. Main additions: - Peasant mob
- Foot Squires (armoured great weapon infantry)
- Grail Guardians (like Grail Knights but hand weapons instead - doesn't makes sense in WFB but it does in TWW - they're less powerful on the charge but better in protracted combat and better vs infantry. Think like giving Chaos Knights ensorcelled weapons for permanent S5 rather than their lances)
- Royal Pegasus Knights (effectively Grail Knights on a pegasus)
- Royal Hippogryph Knights (flying monstrous cavalry; like demigryphs but with wings)
There's a few other variations around weaponry on existing units. The Grail Reliquae became a separate unit to Battle Pilgrims, providing buffs for nearby units.
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Post by tileag on Apr 21, 2020 20:07:01 GMT
Would have loved a 8th ed beastmen book (official). Reworked point costs, magic lore, magic items, bestigors with hand weapon and shields as an option? Who knows what else they could of added (add back on dragon ogres and chaos trolls? New units?). The best that we got was the legions of chaos list which gave some updated rules to beastmen.
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beastyboy
Full Member
5th eddition lizardmen !
Posts: 198
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Post by beastyboy on Apr 22, 2020 17:38:13 GMT
Would have loved a 8th ed beastmen book (official). Reworked point costs, magic lore, magic items, bestigors with hand weapon and shields as an option? Who knows what else they could of added (add back on dragon ogres and chaos trolls? New units?). The best that we got was the legions of chaos list which gave some updated rules to beastmen. but it was a challange playing beastmen and when you won it made all the difference ! |
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Post by tileag on Apr 22, 2020 17:42:24 GMT
Would have loved a 8th ed beastmen book (official). Reworked point costs, magic lore, magic items, bestigors with hand weapon and shields as an option? Who knows what else they could of added (add back on dragon ogres and chaos trolls? New units?). The best that we got was the legions of chaos list which gave some updated rules to beastmen. but it was a challange playing beastmen and when you won it made all the difference ! Definitely still fun and by far my most played army, but it always felt like playing with an unecessary handicap |
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beastyboy
Full Member
5th eddition lizardmen !
Posts: 198
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Post by beastyboy on Apr 22, 2020 19:24:48 GMT
but it was a challange playing beastmen and when you won it made all the difference ! Definitely still fun and by far my most played army, but it always felt like playing with an unecessary handicap And then people would complain about primal fury !!! |
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Post by tileag on Apr 22, 2020 20:22:12 GMT
Definitely still fun and by far my most played army, but it always felt like playing with an unecessary handicap And then people would complain about primal fury !!! People still complain about it! |
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Post by grandmasterwang on Apr 23, 2020 0:21:08 GMT
The primeval club is the best item in the game! The club isnt all that bad....until you see the price of it! Maybe if it was like 45 points. ... maybe if it was 20 lol. I've actually had a chat with a couple of mates about it and once we can battle again I should be able to use it with the added effect of 'no ward saves are allowed by wounds caused by the primeval club' which might just possibly make it passable for the points cost. Regarding Primal Fury I've definitely had a "what, they get rerolls every round... that's bs" comment or two thrown at my 'OP' Beastmen  Beyond any argument about 'power level' GW really should have costed the Cygor at 225 points just so that you could 'legally' use one in addition to a Ghorgon/Jabberslythe in a 2000 point list. I mean it's nuts to think that you need to play minimum 2200 points just to use two of their unique monsters. |
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Post by lordofskullpass on Apr 23, 2020 11:12:24 GMT
Hey, it's not the Druchii to blame! Blame GW's fixation on space marines. Or AoS. What bothered me was the lame excuse that GW apparently gave for not updating Brets - they didn't know how to progress them. Total War Warhammer blew that idea firmly out the water with their take on Brets. Well, to be honest they did give the Dark Elves a huge amount of releases compared to other factions - two White Dwarfs' worth. Pretty much everything except the Reaper Bolt Thrower appeared in plastic by the end of 8th Edition, yet other factions got comparatively little (or nothing at all for Bretonnia and Beastmen), so I do certainly detect some bias from GW in there. I do agree though that that excuse for not doing anything with Bretonnia was daft given that in Warhammer: Total War they've progressed them pretty well. If GW hadn't wasted so much of their time and effort doting on Warriors of Chaos and Dark Elves there would have been month slots in their release schedule for both Bretonnia and Beastmen, so there's no excuse. Hey, it's not the Druchii to blame! Blame GW's fixation on space marines. Or AoS. What bothered me was the lame excuse that GW apparently gave for not updating Brets - they didn't know how to progress them. Total War Warhammer blew that idea firmly out the water with their take on Brets. Personally, I wish that GW would have skipped the End Times and in its place would have released 8th edition books for Skaven, Beastmen and Bretonnia [and one final faq/errata for all the books]. It would have been nice for them to leave WFB with a completed edition. I agree on that too, it would certainly have been far more interesting to see if any of those armies would have changed in power level had they been given 8th Edition books. Would Beastmen and Bretonnia have got better and would Skaven have stayed the same or been nerfed? |
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Post by mottdon on Apr 23, 2020 16:50:26 GMT
I think Skaven would've largely stayed the same. I kinda like where they are power-wise. I think their magic would've changed a bit (making Ruin and Pestilence be a bit more of a separation), the magic items list would've certainly shortened, we would've seen some new units, Slaves point costs would've changed (2 or 3 points - not sure which), WLC points would've gone up, etc.
Brets and Beastmen would've seen huge changes though. I'm betting Beastmen would've been the more powerful of the two because they're Chaos related - GW's favorite. A horde of Beastigor with marks of Nurgle? They'd probably also have 2 attacks each. (Looking at you Dwarf Hammerers.) If the Brets had gotten a new book and models, I totally would've started an army of them.
Here's hopin' for the New/Old World!
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beastyboy
Full Member
5th eddition lizardmen !
Posts: 198
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Post by beastyboy on Apr 23, 2020 18:16:24 GMT
hey a 20% price cut and beastmen would be mid tier lol
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Post by knoffles on Apr 25, 2020 21:58:49 GMT
Beastmen...ugh x100 They felt like a lost in the back of a 6th edition book. Their warhounds didn't even count for core. As well as their monster point costs magic lore Ambushing rule Magic items that are priced....interestingly Magic items that are bad for your own army Minos point cost No dragon ogres or chaos trolls Centigors Despite all that they are still fun to play (for me), but it feels as if youre always playing with a handicap. That sums it up nicely for me. It is predominately the points cost for most of them that is the issue. Minos are 55pts. Ironguts are around 42 and come base with a GW and heavy armour. A troll is only 35. (Yes I did lift that straight from Garagehammer 😉) You could argue that Centigors are reasonably costed considering they have S & T 4 and 2A but their save is mediocre and in a predominately horde army they always get shot to bits too quickly. |
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Post by DiscoQing on Apr 25, 2020 22:20:19 GMT
Give everything in the Beastmen book +1W.
And you have quite a competitive army
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Post by midnightfox0083 on Apr 25, 2020 22:21:02 GMT
Give everything in the Beastmen book +1W. And you have quite a competitive army
Thanks, Alessio Cavatore.
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Post by DiscoQing on Apr 25, 2020 22:33:23 GMT
I'm not wrong though, haha.
Maybe shoot the beasts up the ladder, but they'd still be relatively rubbish.
Let's playtest it.
The other way to do it would be to drop all non characters points by 50%.
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Post by strutsagget on Apr 26, 2020 6:00:02 GMT
I think HE, DE, WoC are rubbish! As I can never win those armies...
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