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Post by jamesacon on Aug 3, 2021 10:00:28 GMT
Hi there,
First time posting here, and I am glad to have found this place! I have recently started to get back into 8th after a long hiatus. (years)
I wish to run a big savage orc unit with a goblin boss BSB with the banner of the spider. Am I allowed to put the boss in the unit?
Thanks for your help.
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Post by oldmandan on Aug 3, 2021 10:09:29 GMT
No not to my knowledge. That said I have a similar question about putting a BSB in a unit of Plague monks. If the rules don't stipulate any restrictions on who can join what unit then I believe it would be okay. Check your rule book as that should state if there are restrictions, then check the errata for updates.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 3, 2021 15:05:19 GMT
Since there is no such restriction in the O&G AB, you can put Goblin characters in Orc units, and vice versa. Of course, they remain subject to the general restrictions that apply to characters joining units (no monsters, flyers, swarms, chariots - unless specifically stated otherwise).
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Post by Sweet_Totally on Aug 3, 2021 15:49:55 GMT
Just out of curiosity given the subject of this thread isn't it a bit odd that more people aren't doing that setup with the virtually obligatory Shrunken Head Shaman thrown into the mix for an insanely powerful deathstar? Or is it just a matter of too many eggs in one basket combined with the relative weak defense of a goblin BSB with a magical banner? Then again, even if the BSB croaks the unit is hella' powerful.
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Post by KevinC on Aug 3, 2021 19:03:08 GMT
Yes, Goblin charcters can join Orc units and vice versa. However, since they are on different base sizes, they don't fit into the unit footprint. This means the Goblin will have to be tacked on to the end of the front rank (which isn't a horrible spot for him to be).
This can be a great combo....you will want to charge with the idea of keeping the BSB out of combat...which you can easily do, especially in a line of 10 Savage Orcs with the Gobbo tacked on the side as an 11th model in the front rank.
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Post by oldmandan on Aug 3, 2021 21:03:13 GMT
Interesting, I suppose we get really caught up in the fluff too much sometimes. I guess this means I can put a bsb in a unit of plaguemonks, I didn't see anything to say I can't does anyone have any thoughts on that.
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Post by DiscoQing on Aug 3, 2021 21:12:39 GMT
When I went to 8th events years ago, was quite common to see a Gobbo BSB with poison banner on savage Orcs, or Gobbo heroes on Wolves/Spiders in orc units for surprise chaff (same foot print for bases). Rarely if ever, saw an Orc in a goblin unit!
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 3, 2021 21:32:44 GMT
oldmandan: As I keep saying, most rules' discussions can be easily resolved by applying the simple principle: unless specifically stated otherwise, normal rules apply. Fluff has no bearing on the rules, except as a help to make a personal choice between two equally valid interpretations - which is not the case here.
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Post by Sweet_Totally on Aug 3, 2021 21:46:14 GMT
When I went to 8th events years ago, was quite common to see a Gobbo BSB with poison banner on savage Orcs, or Gobbo heroes on Wolves/Spiders in orc units for surprise chaff (same foot print for bases). Rarely if ever, saw an Orc in a goblin unit! Oh I see. I guess I shouldn't equate my own experience and what I've read on the topic with how most people do things. Thanks for setting me straight.
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Post by DiscoQing on Aug 3, 2021 22:10:08 GMT
Can't tell if that's sarcasm or not, but either way, a lot of people's list design or deployment choices are down to local Meta - what's common around your way may not be the case where I am. As is evident in this O&G question. I wasn't setting anyone straight, just regaling my exposure to such greenskinery.
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Post by Sweet_Totally on Aug 3, 2021 23:00:52 GMT
It wasn't sarcasm. You just made me realise that I was falling for my own ignorance on the subject which I found amusing. I do realise now however that my comment might have come off as kinda weird.
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Post by vulcan on Aug 4, 2021 2:14:24 GMT
Just out of curiosity given the subject of this thread isn't it a bit odd that more people aren't doing that setup with the virtually obligatory Shrunken Head Shaman thrown into the mix for an insanely powerful deathstar? Or is it just a matter of too many eggs in one basket combined with the relative weak defense of a goblin BSB with a magical banner? Then again, even if the BSB croaks the unit is hella' powerful. By and large, deathstars are the tactic of relatively new players. Yes, they will smash everything they touch. No, they are not the be-all, end-all of tactics because a good player will avoid them, kill the rest of the army, and win on points. Or it will be outmaneuvered and beaten by preventing it from accomplishing victory conditions. Even a simple three-objective scenario creates a very difficult problem for the deathstar, as it can only hold one objective at a time.
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Post by oldmandan on Aug 4, 2021 10:27:24 GMT
True, all your eggs in one basket is not always the best course of action. If you can't annihilate a unit and they have one guy left you don't get the points. Even if that death star makes it up the board it still has to be able to reach as many units as it can and if things are spread out then or units don't break in one round of combat then you may not make enough points or even the units points back. Same goes for magic or shooting as well. That's what I like about 8th there is no guarantee that even with an emphasis on one particular way of playing like magic or combat you'll either get enough dice for a strong enough magic phase or you may get the dice then get a miscast and it's all over or the unit of Gobbos gets insane courage and then you have to send in another unit just deal with it.
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Post by jamesacon on Aug 5, 2021 10:27:57 GMT
Thanks everyone for your help and input! Greatly appreciated!
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Post by knoffles on Aug 7, 2021 12:05:01 GMT
True, all your eggs in one basket is not always the best course of action. If you can't annihilate a unit and they have one guy left you don't get the points. Even if that death star makes it up the board it still has to be able to reach as many units as it can and if things are spread out then or units don't break in one round of combat then you may not make enough points or even the units points back. Same goes for magic or shooting as well. That's what I like about 8th there is no guarantee that even with an emphasis on one particular way of playing like magic or combat you'll either get enough dice for a strong enough magic phase or you may get the dice then get a miscast and it's all over or the unit of Gobbos gets insane courage and then you have to send in another unit just deal with it. Your comment totally nailed how I feel too! 👍
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