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Post by rustynumber on Apr 21, 2023 11:15:55 GMT
More or less silly than one man actually being 200? Is that fence 200 fences as well? Yes personally I would say that "humans use symbolic game pieces to represent larger ideas and concepts in abstracted boardgames" is indeed more realistic and less silly than "melee era armies fought in strict rank and file formations with limited movement during conflicts of less than a hundred soldiers per side and as such should be represented in a 1:1 format in a boardgame" To me the numbers are abstracted just like the distances for unit scale, movement and projectile ranges doesn't have much resemblance to a real life.
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Post by luke82 on Apr 21, 2023 13:13:26 GMT
Well like I said in the bit you trimmed out of the quote, it’s a matter of taste isn’t it? Personally I’d rather abstract unit movement and formation than numbers as numbers leaves me with more questions that take me out of the moment (the aforementioned 200 fence quandary)… but to each their own. It’s just a bit daft to say ‘my abstraction is fine, yours is silly’.
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Post by vulcan on Apr 21, 2023 14:01:23 GMT
The answer is to have a set of movement trays for "competitive" play that you use for all your armies. I already have them. For WFB, 20mm and 25mm and 25x50mm bases. Not TOW larger scale bases that will leave large open spaces between minis. While this isn't so bad for, say, Witches or Sauruses, it looks really bad when applied to Skaven or any unit with spears and/or shields.
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Post by DiscoQing on Apr 21, 2023 15:15:29 GMT
More or less silly than one man actually being 200? Is that fence 200 fences as well? Yes personally I would say that "humans use symbolic game pieces to represent larger ideas and concepts in abstracted boardgames" is indeed more realistic and less silly than "melee era armies fought in strict rank and file formations with limited movement during conflicts of less than a hundred soldiers per side and as such should be represented in a 1:1 format in a boardgame" To me the numbers are abstracted just like the distances for unit scale, movement and projectile ranges doesn't have much resemblance to a real life. In addition to this, in real life, both sides wouldn't have an equal "worth", ie. Points (money?). Real life isn't fair 😂😭
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Post by thegoat on Apr 21, 2023 23:44:08 GMT
In addition to this, in real life, both sides wouldn't have an equal "worth", ie. Points (money?). Real life isn't fair 😂😭 I assume, fluff-wise, there are tons of asymmetric battles fought in the Warhammer world. Just nobody chooses to play those on the tabletop.
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Post by DiscoQing on Apr 22, 2023 0:20:02 GMT
Yeah, what I mean is, if you want an accurate depiction of a battle - then openly accept the occasional 2000pts vs 500pts 🤣
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Post by bastardfromhell on Apr 22, 2023 9:55:26 GMT
Yeah, what I mean is, if you want an accurate depiction of a battle - then openly accept the occasional 2000pts vs 500pts 🤣 Always wanted to play a campaign system with a map and unit tokens which represent the size of the army. Something like Risk where each token counts as 100 points. This way you could end up with a match with 500pts vs 2000pts. Wasn't there something from GW called Mighty Empires or something? Never played it unfortunately. Did somebody give it a try?
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Post by herjan1987 on Apr 22, 2023 10:26:51 GMT
This way you could end up with a match with 500pts vs 2000pts. Wasn't there something from GW called Mighty Empires or something? Never played it unfortunately. Did somebody give it a try? It would be fun to have a tabletop supplement game, that allows you to have multiple armys roaming around on a map like Mighty Empires did. You could do all sorts of insane ideas with it.
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Post by thegoat on Apr 22, 2023 10:32:57 GMT
Yeah, what I mean is, if you want an accurate depiction of a battle - then openly accept the occasional 2000pts vs 500pts 🤣 Always wanted to play a campaign system with a map and unit tokens which represent the size of the army. Something like Risk where each token counts as 100 points. This way you could end up with a match with 500pts vs 2000pts. Wasn't there something from GW called Mighty Empires or something? Never played it unfortunately. Did somebody give it a try? Yes, my group has used the Mighty Empires campaign system. It has issues. A big one being you can end up with 500pts vs 2000pts battles. People don't really want to spend the time to play those games. And the campaign grinds to a halt or people just forfeit their games.
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Post by thegoat on Apr 22, 2023 10:42:55 GMT
This way you could end up with a match with 500pts vs 2000pts. Wasn't there something from GW called Mighty Empires or something? Never played it unfortunately. Did somebody give it a try? It would be fun to have a tabletop supplement game, that allows you to have multiple armys roaming around on a map like Mighty Empires did. You could do all sorts of insane ideas with it. The Border Princes campaign from the General's Compendium works better than Mighty Empires. Every army on the map is a standard points value (ie. 2500pts). So most battles are between symmetric sized forces. But there are special rules that can increase or decrease each army's points in a given battle (ie. an unengaged friendly army in an adjacent territory will give you +200pts in your battle). This allows for asymmetric battles. But it doesn't result in one side out numbering the other to an outrageous degree.
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Post by KevinC on Apr 22, 2023 14:08:33 GMT
This way you could end up with a match with 500pts vs 2000pts. Wasn't there something from GW called Mighty Empires or something? Never played it unfortunately. Did somebody give it a try? It would be fun to have a tabletop supplement game, that allows you to have multiple armys roaming around on a map like Mighty Empires did. You could do all sorts of insane ideas with it. ---------The original Mighty Empires is simply awesome. I developed my own campaign rules based on Mighty Empires, and my group and I played the same campaign for nine years. We recently started a new campaign with the same continued narrative. Playing uneven points values is part of the decision making in moving your banners on the map, it's part of the risk and strategy. We capped each banner to a max size of 3,000 and min size of 1,000. Also there is a lot of book work (which I personally love) for your army can lose troops - you don't just automatically give everything back when a unit is destroyed. The rules and our narrative are on this forum: Dark Tidings Campaign Rules
Narrative: Dark Tidings Narrative
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Post by vulcan on Apr 22, 2023 17:34:07 GMT
Yeah, what I mean is, if you want an accurate depiction of a battle - then openly accept the occasional 2000pts vs 500pts 🤣 Always wanted to play a campaign system with a map and unit tokens which represent the size of the army. Something like Risk where each token counts as 100 points. This way you could end up with a match with 500pts vs 2000pts. Wasn't there something from GW called Mighty Empires or something? Never played it unfortunately. Did somebody give it a try? I always wanted to play a campaign like that with my Dark Elves, use small (i.e. the 500 point armies) composed solely of Dark Riders and characters on Dark Steeds. M9 is darn hard for a balanced army to force into battle if they don't want to fight.
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Post by lordofskullpass on Apr 23, 2023 8:28:48 GMT
Always wanted to play a campaign system with a map and unit tokens which represent the size of the army. Something like Risk where each token counts as 100 points. This way you could end up with a match with 500pts vs 2000pts. Wasn't there something from GW called Mighty Empires or something? Never played it unfortunately. Did somebody give it a try? Yes, my group has used the Mighty Empires campaign system. It has issues. A big one being you can end up with 500pts vs 2000pts battles. People don't really want to spend the time to play those games. And the campaign grinds to a halt or people just forfeit their games. One way to eliminate this is to do what you can do in SPQR campaigns, where the side with fewer points can purchase Mercenary units and characters to add to their army to ensure the two sides play at a fair points value (in the case of Warhammer, in the style of T&T) that disappear after the battle has been fought.
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Post by rustynumber on Apr 23, 2023 9:29:13 GMT
I wonder if you could make up by just playing game types that either try to balance the match up (ie more defensible terrain or objective for the smaller point player) or using some different victory conditions (try to get the smaller force to escape the board, win VPs for how successful you are at that)
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Post by KevinC on Apr 23, 2023 17:22:12 GMT
I wonder if you could make up by just playing game types that either try to balance the match up (ie more defensible terrain or objective for the smaller point player) or using some different victory conditions (try to get the smaller force to escape the board, win VPs for how successful you are at that) ----------Absolutely. See my campaign rules above. There are banner actions that address this. We also have a rule where if the points different between two armies is greater than 500 points, then the smaller army my rearrange D3+1 terrain pieces.
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