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Post by thegoat on Nov 20, 2023 16:54:29 GMT
- Fight in one rank (no more supporting attack from second rank).
- Whole front rank fights. But models not in base-to-base only get one attack.
- Stepping up seems to be gone.
- Charging give initiative bonus as does engaging from the flank or rear.
- Pursue and catching fleeing unit is not auto kills. Just counts as charging into a new combat.
- Multiple break test results.
Removing stepping up is the only change that I'm not super excited about. edit: Not actually a part of the rules they discussed, but they mention "pikes". Does this mean Dogs of War are due to return? Or will other factions gain access to pikes? Or did somebody just think that word sounded cooler than "spears"? Seems like you are able to re-enter combat if the enemy did step back. If they break and you cath em, they are cut down as mentioned here: "Pursue a unit that flees or falls back. If you catch a fleeing unit, it’s cut down and destroyed. If you catch a unit falling back, combat begins again and the pursuer counts as having charged" Ah, I misread it. Thanks.
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Post by sedge on Nov 20, 2023 16:58:21 GMT
- Fight in one rank (no more supporting attack from second rank).
- Whole front rank fights. But models not in base-to-base only get one attack.
- Stepping up seems to be gone.
- Charging give initiative bonus as does engaging from the flank or rear.
Pursue and catching fleeing unit is not auto kills. Just counts as charging into a new combat. (my mistake)- Multiple break test results.
Removing stepping up is the only change that I'm not super excited about. edit: Not actually a part of the rules they discussed, but they mention "pikes". Does this mean Dogs of War are due to return? Or will other factions gain access to pikes? Or did somebody just think that word sounded cooler than "spears"? I think stepping up is still there - "Casualties are removed from the back ranks, representing the rear ranks stepping forward as their comrades bite the dirt." It's good to see that the WS "to hit" chart now allows for 2+ to hit in some cases. I also like the Overkill bonus points towards combat result - no more challenging a Vampire Lord away with a mere unit champion.
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Post by thegoat on Nov 20, 2023 17:17:11 GMT
- Stepping up seems to be gone.
I think stepping up is still there - "Casualties are removed from the back ranks, representing the rear ranks stepping forward as their comrades bite the dirt." This part makes me think step up is gone, "...with the higher Initiative models striking first, a charging unit has the opportunity to overwhelm its enemies before they have the wit to swing back."We won't know for sure until more rules are revealed.
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Post by TyrrenAzureblade on Nov 20, 2023 17:27:11 GMT
Overkill counted towards combat resolution, it may just not be capped. It’s unclear to me whether models that are “lapping ‘round” count as being in base contact or not. I’m of the opinion that they should, otherwise units with multiple attacks will lose some of their lustre.
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Post by thegoat on Nov 20, 2023 17:46:38 GMT
Overkill counted towards combat resolution, it may just not be capped. It’s unclear to me whether models that are “lapping ‘round” count as being in base contact or not. I’m of the opinion that they should, otherwise units with multiple attacks will lose some of their lustre. I don't think the lapping round models will count as base-to-base. It will be similar to 8th edition where supporting attacks were one per model regardless of how many attacks were on the unit profile. I'm starting to worry about seeing 100 dwarf hammers, or similar elite infantry, arranged in one long rank. As long as the unit's flanks are protected, they will be instant death to any combat to the front.
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Post by lordofskullpass on Nov 20, 2023 17:49:30 GMT
- Fight in one rank (no more supporting attack from second rank).
- Whole front rank fights. But models not in base-to-base only get one attack.
- Stepping up seems to be gone.
- Charging give initiative bonus as does engaging from the flank or rear.
Pursue and catching fleeing unit is not auto kills. Just counts as charging into a new combat. (my mistake)- Multiple break test results.
Removing stepping up is the only change that I'm not super excited about. edit: Not actually a part of the rules they discussed, but they mention "pikes". Does this mean Dogs of War are due to return? Or will other factions gain access to pikes? Or did somebody just think that word sounded cooler than "spears"? I wouldn't say step up is gone, because they made no reference to subtracting the number of casualties you've suffered from the number of attacks you're making against your opponent. It's supporting attacks for non-spear-armed units that have gone (though it has survived in some form in models on the wings of units that haven't reached base contact being able to attack). Largely though, once again some very nice rules. Good to see High Ground Combat Resolution bonus returning after having been forgotten in 8th, and chargers getting a boost to their Initiative (though not necessarily striking first). And the expanded Break Test rules are particularly nice.
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Post by rustynumber on Nov 20, 2023 22:26:47 GMT
I think the word you're looking for is "antagonists", I think they're certainly more in the neutral zone with Lizardmen and Ogres (which is all from a "humans are the good guys" PoV)
Loving these new rules! Some troubling rumours about the whole ToW team churning over in recent months though....
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Post by tileag on Nov 20, 2023 22:54:56 GMT
I know I'm probably going to sound biased (I mean...I'm posting on EEFL) but I feel like 8th was pretty great. We all know what the issues and main gripes were, I feel like those could of been remedied and life would of been easier for everyone.
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Post by Sweet_Totally on Nov 21, 2023 0:09:02 GMT
This part makes me think step up is gone, "...with the higher Initiative models striking first, a charging unit has the opportunity to overwhelm its enemies before they have the wit to swing back."As I read it that just refers to the possibility of the charge bonus leaving it open for many more units to actually annihilate the opposing unit before it has the chance to swing back. What really interests me is that the explanation for Breaks and Flees suggests that the general of an army no longer automatically comes with a leadership aura.
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Post by thegoat on Nov 21, 2023 0:26:49 GMT
This part makes me think step up is gone, "...with the higher Initiative models striking first, a charging unit has the opportunity to overwhelm its enemies before they have the wit to swing back."As I read it that just refers to the possibility of the charge bonus leaving it open for many more units to actually annihilate the opposing unit before it has the chance to swing back. Maybe I'm reading too much into that one sentence. It could be the way you describe for sure. But I still get the feeling step up is history. We shall see. What really interests me is that the explanation for Breaks and Flees suggests that the general of an army no longer automatically comes with a leadership aura. I wouldn't count out the general's inspiring presence radus. I think it just was too specific of a rule to include in this article which was a limited broad overview of the phase.
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Post by Sweet_Totally on Nov 21, 2023 1:23:49 GMT
I wouldn't count out the general's inspiring presence radus. I think it just was too specific of a rule to include in this article which was a limited broad overview of the phase. That might be. I for one am hoping for different general bonuses for different types of characters though. In such a scenario it would definitely be apt if the 'tactician' pick came with a leadership aura. Furthermore, depending on how they define "re-entering combat" for the Follow Up-response to winning a fight I could see flails becoming quite the hot pick.
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Post by mottdon on Nov 21, 2023 2:12:58 GMT
Overall, I don't consider these changes all that different from 8th edition cc.
Only front rank attacks seems to be the biggest thing, but I think they might be attempting to counter that "loss of support attacks" with the "wrap around" attacks. Of course, that only works if you have the numbers.
Hopefully, the addition of the losing combatant just stepping back doesn't complicate things too much, but I just wonder how that'd work if the losing combatant has multiple units in both flanks and/or rear.
But, yeah, I'll say it again, I'm afraid we're going to see several of those units with 20 Swordmasters on the front rank and 5 on the second to count as being 2 ranks deep. Then they'll have a second unit behind that to intercept any would-be pursuers and prevent unit #1 from being run down all while dealing out tons more pain. Hard to flank or get rear charges off against units that span the whole length of the table too.
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Post by TyrrenAzureblade on Nov 21, 2023 3:52:25 GMT
Because there isn't a minimum rank number (it seems heavily implied there won't be one), I'm betting ranks only count as full ranks if they're as wide as the front rank.
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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Nov 21, 2023 5:46:48 GMT
I think stepping up is still there - "Casualties are removed from the back ranks, representing the rear ranks stepping forward as their comrades bite the dirt." +1 That's the way I interpreted it as well.
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Post by thorpyuk on Nov 21, 2023 10:31:16 GMT
Good to see initiative bonuses to charging units- it's the one weak-spot of 8th edition that a unit of charging knights with lances can get slaughtered to a man without even getting to strike! Knights in general got hit with a big nerf bat in 8th - the stepover rule on its own was enough to stop Knight charges from slaughtering units in one go
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