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Post by rustynumber on Nov 19, 2023 23:33:27 GMT
If they're fossilised bones surely "necrolith" makes a little sense? I don't mind the dragon skele, the howdah is a bit over the top, but the idea of having dragons that looked different to other dragons is fine, and why wouldn't the great and powerful Khemri empire go after dragons as a symbol of power/prestige/mastery same as every other faction in the game. The bones aren't even fossilised, they've just been mummified in sand (not the same as fossilisation, which requires densely-packed soil and sediment), and thus do not follow the literal meaning of Necrolith ('Dead Stone'). The lore explanation GW have included is not altogether unreasonable, but it still just doesn't fit with the full-on Egyptian nature of the army. I'm fine with them not slavishly adhering to "it must only be real world egyptian tropes in fantasy land!" As much as I'm not a fan of AoS going full on silly "OC-do-not-steal" off the deep end with their original designs and fluff, I still would like some creativity in WFB.
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Post by KevinC on Nov 20, 2023 0:39:45 GMT
I don't have facebook. But apparently GW made a WH:TOW group on there and showed some new artwork. Notice there is a date under the skull: 2276. In the Warhammer timeline, I believe 2276 is about two and a half decades before the great war against Chaos. -----------I'm guessing this is the rulebook cover image...
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Post by bastardfromhell on Nov 20, 2023 9:08:14 GMT
Me, waiting for the Monday Old World article:
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Post by lordofskullpass on Nov 20, 2023 9:37:44 GMT
The lore explanation GW have included is not altogether unreasonable, but it still just doesn't fit with the full-on Egyptian nature of the army. I'm fine with them not slavishly adhering to "it must only be real world egyptian tropes in fantasy land!" As much as I'm not a fan of AoS going full on silly "OC-do-not-steal" off the deep end with their original designs and fluff, I still would like some creativity in WFB. Pity then that a skeletal dragon is not a creative addition to an undead army, particularly one with a strong Egyptian theme to it Indeed I felt that the statue models released for 8th Edition were much more creative - yes they did lean much more heavily on the Egyptian theme than much that came before them (and that's also one of their major strongpoints, helping to diverge Tomb Kings further than the generic undead that are Vampire Counts), but they didn't mindlessly rip off Egyptian tropes - the Sphinx variants still look recognisably different from real-world examples to be considered fantastical, and the Necropolis Knights and Sepulchral Stalkers are very different to most real-world Egyptian statuary.
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Post by sedge on Nov 20, 2023 9:45:39 GMT
That cover artwork shown further up in the thread locks in the 9 "core factions" confirmed already (their shields are depicted near the bottom), and means they're unlikely to be surprising us with a sneaky Kislev release. Though I think hopes of Kislev appearing died off as the smaller scale of the support for the game became apparent (i.e. the large amount of returning kits, even bad ancient ones like TK Skeleton Warriors).
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simon
Full Member
Posts: 152
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Post by simon on Nov 20, 2023 13:33:39 GMT
Is there a clue about the main rivalries in the narrative by looking at the opposite shield in the picture? Dwarfs vs O&G, High Elves vs Chaos, TK vs Brets, Wood Elves vs Beastmen ?
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Post by thegoat on Nov 20, 2023 13:49:53 GMT
Is there a clue about the main rivalries in the narrative by looking at the opposite shield in the picture? Dwarfs vs O&G, High Elves vs Chaos, TK vs Brets, Wood Elves vs Beastmen ? What is sure to annoy people is all the "good" faction shields are on the left and the "evil" faction shields are on the right. With Empire in the middle. Some people really don't like Tomb Kings being classified as evil. And my own personal belief system puts all Elves in the evil camp. Those smug bastards, looking down on us from their ivory tower!
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Post by KevinC on Nov 20, 2023 15:34:52 GMT
Is there a clue about the main rivalries in the narrative by looking at the opposite shield in the picture? Dwarfs vs O&G, High Elves vs Chaos, TK vs Brets, Wood Elves vs Beastmen ? What is sure to annoy people is all the "good" faction shields are on the left and the "evil" faction shields are on the right. With Empire in the middle. Some people really don't like Tomb Kings being classified as evil. And my own personal belief system puts all Elves in the evil camp. Those smug bastards, looking down on us from their ivory tower!--------Settra is a tyrannical monarch who desires to conquer. He commands legions of unnatural skeletons warriors. I would not fit them into the forces of order. Being on the 'evil' side makes the most sense.
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Post by herjan1987 on Nov 20, 2023 15:37:02 GMT
Is there a clue about the main rivalries in the narrative by looking at the opposite shield in the picture? Dwarfs vs O&G, High Elves vs Chaos, TK vs Brets, Wood Elves vs Beastmen ? Wood elfs vs Beastmen is as iconic as Dwarfs vs Orcs and Goblins. If these are box sets then kudos for the Specialist games team. Tomb Kings being evil baffles me too. Wondering where they put the Ogres, they are fighting for power and grubs according to CA-s trailer.
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Post by herjan1987 on Nov 20, 2023 16:15:11 GMT
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Post by lordofskullpass on Nov 20, 2023 16:20:22 GMT
Settra is a tyrannical monarch who desires to conquer. He commands legions of unnatural skeletons warriors. I would not fit them into the forces of order. Being on the 'evil' side makes the most sense. But Settra is capable of magnanimity as well as arrogance, e.g. being willing to reward peasants who have served him well in some way. He is willing to acknowledge the success of others among his people and respect them for that. He also was capable of displaying humility, such as sacrificing his own offspring, and the succession of his bloodline, to the gods of Nehekhara, to proclaim that his duty was to Nehekhara, rather than himself. Not to mention that he likes to prove his superiority through honourable single combat. The Tomb Kings as a whole, furthermore, are only a threat to anyone who steals any of their artefacts - if nobody steals their stuff, the Tomb Kings are quite happy to leave people alone. They despise the undead bodies that Nagash forced upon them, and simply want to be mortal again (or preferably divine golden entities) and restore their kingdoms to their former glory. If anything the Tomb Kings are like the Dead of Dunharrow from Middle Earth - not without sin, no, and merciless toward anyone who crosses them, but ultimately they seek peace, freedom and order. Compare that to Nagash, who has anyone who even remotely looks like a challenger to his throne murdered, and is quite happy to tip the odds of any fight into his favour by means fair or foul, and the Vampire Counts as a whole, who very much lust after personal power, the satisfaction of their personal whims, and the enslavement of both the dead and the living once they have been made dead.
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Post by thegoat on Nov 20, 2023 16:23:50 GMT
- Fight in one rank (no more supporting attack from second rank).
- Whole front rank fights. But models not in base-to-base only get one attack.
- Stepping up seems to be gone.
- Charging give initiative bonus as does engaging from the flank or rear.
Pursue and catching fleeing unit is not auto kills. Just counts as charging into a new combat. (my mistake)- Multiple break test results.
Removing stepping up is the only change that I'm not super excited about. edit: Not actually a part of the rules they discussed, but they mention "pikes". Does this mean Dogs of War are due to return? Or will other factions gain access to pikes? Or did somebody just think that word sounded cooler than "spears"?
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Post by thegoat on Nov 20, 2023 16:31:30 GMT
Settra is a tyrannical monarch who desires to conquer. He commands legions of unnatural skeletons warriors. I would not fit them into the forces of order. Being on the 'evil' side makes the most sense. But Settra is capable of magnanimity as well as arrogance, e.g. being willing to reward peasants who have served him well in some way. He is willing to acknowledge the success of others among his people and respect them for that. He also was capable of displaying humility, such as sacrificing his own offspring, and the succession of his bloodline, to the gods of Nehekhara, to proclaim that his duty was to Nehekhara, rather than himself. Not to mention that he likes to prove his superiority through honourable single combat. The Tomb Kings as a whole, furthermore, are only a threat to anyone who steals any of their artefacts - if nobody steals their stuff, the Tomb Kings are quite happy to leave people alone. They despise the undead bodies that Nagash forced upon them, and simply want to be mortal again (or preferably divine golden entities) and restore their kingdoms to their former glory. If anything the Tomb Kings are like the Dead of Dunharrow from Middle Earth - not without sin, no, and merciless toward anyone who crosses them, but ultimately they seek peace, freedom and order. Compare that to Nagash, who has anyone who even remotely looks like a challenger to his throne murdered, and is quite happy to tip the odds of any fight into his favour by means fair or foul, and the Vampire Counts as a whole, who very much lust after personal power, the satisfaction of their personal whims, and the enslavement of both the dead and the living once they have been made dead. Thank you for proving my point! ;-)
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Post by bastardfromhell on Nov 20, 2023 16:40:27 GMT
- Fight in one rank (no more supporting attack from second rank).
- Whole front rank fights. But models not in base-to-base only get one attack.
- Stepping up seems to be gone.
- Charging give initiative bonus as does engaging from the flank or rear.
- Pursue and catching fleeing unit is not auto kills. Just counts as charging into a new combat.
- Multiple break test results.
Removing stepping up is the only change that I'm not super excited about. edit: Not actually a part of the rules they discussed, but they mention "pikes". Does this mean Dogs of War are due to return? Or will other factions gain access to pikes? Or did somebody just think that word sounded cooler than "spears"? Seems like you are able to re-enter combat if the enemy did step back. If they break and you cath em, they are cut down as mentioned here: "Pursue a unit that flees or falls back. If you catch a fleeing unit, it’s cut down and destroyed. If you catch a unit falling back, combat begins again and the pursuer counts as having charged"
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Post by KevinC on Nov 20, 2023 16:41:41 GMT
Settra is a tyrannical monarch who desires to conquer. He commands legions of unnatural skeletons warriors. I would not fit them into the forces of order. Being on the 'evil' side makes the most sense. But Settra is capable of magnanimity as well as arrogance, e.g. being willing to reward peasants who have served him well in some way. He is willing to acknowledge the success of others among his people and respect them for that. He also was capable of displaying humility, such as sacrificing his own offspring, and the succession of his bloodline, to the gods of Nehekhara, to proclaim that his duty was to Nehekhara, rather than himself. Not to mention that he likes to prove his superiority through honourable single combat. The Tomb Kings as a whole, furthermore, are only a threat to anyone who steals any of their artefacts - if nobody steals their stuff, the Tomb Kings are quite happy to leave people alone. They despise the undead bodies that Nagash forced upon them, and simply want to be mortal again (or preferably divine golden entities) and restore their kingdoms to their former glory. If anything the Tomb Kings are like the Dead of Dunharrow from Middle Earth - not without sin, no, and merciless toward anyone who crosses them, but ultimately they seek peace, freedom and order. Compare that to Nagash, who has anyone who even remotely looks like a challenger to his throne murdered, and is quite happy to tip the odds of any fight into his favour by means fair or foul, and the Vampire Counts as a whole, who very much lust after personal power, the satisfaction of their personal whims, and the enslavement of both the dead and the living once they have been made dead. ----------Evil can be from a certain point of view. I'm just saying if you're throwing armies into Forces of Good and Bad, Tomb Kings makes sense on the bad team. They are Undead Conquerors, they may see it as trying to retake lands that belong to them, but costal raids on Bretonnia or Empire will make them the bad guys in Warhammer. Vlad von Carstein had noble intentions in many ways, he's still a bad guy. If you want to say Tomb Kings are misunderstood good guys fine, but they make sense being in the Warhammer bad camp...their whole existence is based on unnatural corruption after all and they don't like the empires of Men, Dwarfs and Elves running around their lands unchecked.
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