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Post by herjan1987 on Sept 7, 2023 15:22:50 GMT
Depending on the price point I will either use spacer base or spacer tray. I still want to play older versions of the game.
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Post by Darnok on Sept 7, 2023 19:33:51 GMT
I was considering getting spaced trays, but the more I think about it, the less I think I even care. If the rules are going to allow every model in the fighting rank to fight, proper spacing matters a lot less. I'm going to keep my original bases, and if it becomes an issue with later rules revisions, I'm going to see if anybody makes base adapters that can be magnetized. If their ruleset emphasizes reforming frequently, a spaced tray is quickly going to be an inelegant solution. Everyone I play WFB with is keeping their old bases, so we're going to just play TOW with legacy base sizes. --------I had a unit on the wrong base size (because GW kept switching base sizes for Beasts of Nurgle from edition to edition) and I played them on the base size I had them on. I simply told my opponent if they think I'm gaining some advantage by them being on the wrong base size then we will simply work it out to his likely in such a situation. No one ever had an issue. I think that's a polite way to play it.
Agreed. Outside of a hardcore competetive environment - which I could not care less about - I see nobody having a serious issue with one or two models in an army having a "wrong" base. You also should keep in mind that there are no official GW rules (that I know of) for base sizes in WHF 8th edtion. So in theory you can base your models however you want anyway.
Maybe it's me getting detached and cynical as I grow into this hobby; but I care less and less about what the "official" ruling is. If anyone is really going to have a problem for a few mm they're probably not the type of person you want to give 2-3 hours of your life to to play a game.
You are not wrong. However those "few mm" in base length/width change make a pretty hefty difference in area covered, as I pointed out in the OP. In case of opposing armies with different base sizes you will have to do some talking with the other player, as the implications for gameplay could be substantial.
I will not do anything for a while. I am very mixed about ToW. On one hand I am excited and happy to see the worlde of olde come "back", although for me it never really went away. I have a very nice and friendly local gaminggroup where we play 8th edition and still having a blast with it. On the other hand, I am very sceptic about GW (in general). Not to be salty, but GW has disspointed me more often in the last 10 years or so than that they have pleasantly suprised me. So I am a bit "reserved untill proven wrong". That is why I will not build anything at the moment. Our group has decided we will try out ToW first with old base sizes. (if I recall correctly GW has stated this is a valid option, as long as both players do so.) If the case is that ToW will be fun and satisfying to play, we will consider making movement trays and/or base-adapters (altough hard if you use a lot of multibasing...) to be able to partake in tournaments and events outside of our group. Only if ToW has been running (well) for a longer period of time will I consider rebasing one of my armies or simply start a new one. It feels like a safe and sensible decision, for if ToW does not "succeed" we can simply continue with 8th or give T9A/WAP etc. a fair try.
Sounds perfectly reasonable to me, and congrats on having an active playgroup for WHF 8th! I hope it turns out for the best for you all, with the absolute worst outcome being the older kits being for sale again.
Depending on the price point I will either use spacer base or spacer tray. I still want older versions of the game.
Fair enough. As above, keep in mind there are no official rules for base sizes in WHF 8th, so you could play both rule sets with both base conventions anyway, but only the bigger bases are "legal" in TOW tournaments.
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Post by herjan1987 on Sept 8, 2023 18:44:42 GMT
Depending on the price point I will either use spacer base or spacer tray. I still want older versions of the game.
Fair enough. As above, keep in mind there are no official rules for base sizes in WHF 8th, so you could play both rule sets with both base conventions anyway, but only the bigger bases are "legal" in TOW tournaments.
I smell heresy, there is a base size list on this forum ( sarcams ) But to be fair units like Dwarf Hammerers and Orcs and Goblins Black Orcs and Savage Orcs could benefit from bigger bases. |
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Post by Horace on Sept 8, 2023 20:34:32 GMT
I will not do anything for a while. I am very mixed about ToW. On one hand I am excited and happy to see the worlde of olde come "back", although for me it never really went away. I have a very nice and friendly local gaminggroup where we play 8th edition and still having a blast with it. On the other hand, I am very sceptic about GW (in general). Not to be salty, but GW has disspointed me more often in the last 10 years or so than that they have pleasantly suprised me. So I am a bit "reserved untill proven wrong". That is why I will not build anything at the moment. Our group has decided we will try out ToW first with old base sizes. (if I recall correctly GW has stated this is a valid option, as long as both players do so.) If the case is that ToW will be fun and satisfying to play, we will consider making movement trays and/or base-adapters (altough hard if you use a lot of multibasing...) to be able to partake in tournaments and events outside of our group. Only if ToW has been running (well) for a longer period of time will I consider rebasing one of my armies or simply start a new one. It feels like a safe and sensible decision, for if ToW does not "succeed" we can simply continue with 8th or give T9A/WAP etc. a fair try. I'm more hesitant because of the shifted timeline etc than the change in base size tbh |
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Post by Darnok on Sept 8, 2023 21:22:49 GMT
Fair enough. As above, keep in mind there are no official rules for base sizes in WHF 8th, so you could play both rule sets with both base conventions anyway, but only the bigger bases are "legal" in TOW tournaments.
I smell heresy, there is a base size list on this forum ( sarcams ) But to be fair units like Dwarf Hammerers and Orcs and Goblins Black Orcs and Savage Orcs could benefit from bigger bases.
You are not wrong on either point. 
Definitely agreed on the benefit of bigger bases on quite a lot of units.
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Post by Naitsabes on Sept 9, 2023 0:05:34 GMT
Definitely agreed on the benefit of bigger bases on quite a lot of units.
Hard to disagree there, I am sure we've all struggled at some point with ranking up one unit or the other. But then I can't help but wonder if tiny bases are the only thing keeping scale creep in check. Is increasing base sizes like adding another lane on a chronically congested freeway  |
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Post by Luigino on Sept 9, 2023 23:52:43 GMT
But then I can't help but wonder if tiny bases are the only thing keeping scale creep in check. Is increasing base sizes like adding another lane on a chronically congested freeway Honestly this is my main concern here. I feel like increasing the minimum size is a "power move" on GW's part to further separate itself from other rulesets; and just like you I really think that larger bases will just lead to bigger miniatures and bigger footprint per model. |
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Post by thegoat on Sept 11, 2023 1:05:21 GMT
I am sure we've all struggled at some point with ranking up one unit or the other. But then I can't help but wonder if tiny bases are the only thing keeping scale creep in check. Is increasing base sizes like adding another lane on a chronically congested freeway Anybody who thinks increasing base sizes will fix problems with models being too large to fit on their provided base is in for a rude awakening. Any new sculpts will be sized to occupy 110% of the new base size, just like they are today. I see nothing redeeming about the increase in base sizes. If it actually matters, I will use spaced movement trays. Otherwise I'll stick to classic base sizes. |
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karnus
Junior Member
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Post by karnus on Sept 11, 2023 5:59:47 GMT
I am sure we've all struggled at some point with ranking up one unit or the other. But then I can't help but wonder if tiny bases are the only thing keeping scale creep in check. Is increasing base sizes like adding another lane on a chronically congested freeway Anybody who thinks increasing base sizes will fix problems with models being too large to fit on their provided base is in for a rude awakening. Any new sculpts will be sized to occupy 110% of the new base size, just like they are today. I see nothing redeeming about the increase in base sizes. If it actually matters, I will use spaced movement trays. Otherwise I'll stick to classic base sizes. I don’t fully understand the issue people take with scale creep. If anything I prefer a slightly larger model, I think it looks better and is easier to paint. It allows for a more interesting and detailed sculpt as well. |
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Post by Luigino on Sept 11, 2023 11:41:39 GMT
Scale creep isn't a problem for the looks of a model.
Scale creep is a problem for the mechanics of the game (with models not ranking up properly and occupying a larger space on the tabletop) and for coss-generational compatibility; making it harder not only to use older models along new ones, but also to convert/kitbash models from different generations.
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Post by thegoat on Sept 11, 2023 12:17:30 GMT
I don’t fully understand the issue people take with scale creep. If anything I prefer a slightly larger model, I think it looks better and is easier to paint. It allows for a more interesting and detailed sculpt as well. I like models to be properly in scale with eachother. A Goblin is supposed to be tiny a Chaos warrior is supposed to be large and an Ogre even larger. The classic base sizes depict the relative sizes correctly. Once one race is bumped up in size, all other races need to increase to look correct. No thank you. |
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Post by sedge on Sept 11, 2023 15:17:27 GMT
I don't really have "new army projects", as I either have collected or am collecting every race already (unless Kislev or Cathay get releases down the line). I don't intend to rebase anything - I think it's unnecessarily destructive, and I have enough work to do on my models already. I've always been relaxed on base sizes, especially as I use non-GW models for some cases, so have things like Mierce monsters on whatever they best fit on, and some more recent GW characters on 40mm squares as there's no way they'll fit on a 20mm square. I don't play in an environment where that's a problem, so normally wouldn't need or want to use adaptors. I intend to therefore generally stick to old base sizes where possible, and only use new base sizes where the models won't rank up on old ones. However, this causes some problems, and I've already encountered the first - I have the new Blood Knights kit (which is fantastic, and I feel the scale is appropriate) but they're far too big for cavalry bases. I'll therefore wait to see what new bases come out for them, and use those. The main issue will be that my mounted Vampire Lord is on a current cavalry base, so won't rank up with the unit. I don't really care if I'm playing an army and one cavalry unit is on old bases, the other on new, but it's using characters with them where things get annoying. I guess I'll just need to use base adaptors in those cases, or over time I'll eventually end up with so many I have both old base and new base versions of any character type  I was a little concerned about scale creep, but with GW sticking with some quite old kits (e.g. 6th edition Bret knights) I don't think that'll be such a problem - the new mounted character they showed off looked thet same size. There's already units that were current in 8th that are oddly scaled - regular Goblins being far taller and chunkier than the newer Night Goblins. There are some types of models I've long thought need to be bigger to accurately represent them - to an extent the way that Primaris marines "corrected" the size differences between marines and regular humans in 40k. In particular, Orc, Beastmen and Chaos characters should be much bigger and more physically imposing than they are, and I don't mind putting them on 50mm bases if that's needed. tl;dr - I'm relaxed, but fitting new base characters in old base units (and vice versa) will be annoying. |
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karnus
Junior Member
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Post by karnus on Sept 13, 2023 8:05:37 GMT
I don’t fully understand the issue people take with scale creep. If anything I prefer a slightly larger model, I think it looks better and is easier to paint. It allows for a more interesting and detailed sculpt as well. I like models to be properly in scale with eachother. A Goblin is supposed to be tiny a Chaos warrior is supposed to be large and an Ogre even larger. The classic base sizes depict the relative sizes correctly. Once one race is bumped up in size, all other races need to increase to look correct. No thank you. I think ultimately things change, and eventually people need to get with the times. (I’ll hide my hypocrisy by not playing AOS when it replaced WFB ) |
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Post by herjan1987 on Sept 13, 2023 14:50:30 GMT
(I’ll hide my hypocrisy by not playing AOS when it replaced WFB ) I would not be suprised,if there is some connection between the lack of information drops about rules and etc. and that they still refer to the setting as the world that was. I mean you can just think how much more hype they could generate,if they do a WFB proper. Also every knows that Warhammer the Old World will replace AoS. If not the Dwarfs Will make sure, that GW Will fall. ( Sarcsam ) |
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karnus
Junior Member
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Post by karnus on Sept 13, 2023 15:08:25 GMT
(I’ll hide my hypocrisy by not playing AOS when it replaced WFB ) I would not be suprised,if there is some connection between the lack of information drops about rules and etc. and that they still refer to the setting as the world that was. I mean you can just think how much more hype they could generate,if they do a WFB proper. Also every knows that Warhammer the Old World will replace AoS. If not the Dwarfs Will make sure, that GW Will fall. ( Sarcsam ) As much as I would enjoy that, I don’t think TOW will replace AOS. I strongly believe it will become more popular almost overnight as old school players come flooding back to the fold though. |
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