|
|
Post by Darnok on Sept 4, 2023 9:04:07 GMT
Assume you were looking forward to TOW, and having an army project in the works these days. What base sizes do you go with, and does this question maybe stop you from doing certain armies? To illustrate my point, I will go over a few musings of mine, but I am really interested in other peoples take on this topic!
Why am I even asking this? You can certainly play TOW with your old armies, right? Yes, yes you can! Either by just using armies as they are, or by using unit bases to adapt to the new footprint you can easily play TOW with existing collections. This is not about whether you should rebase your models, everybody is of course free to do as they please. I just want to discuss the hobby side of things at a time when we have not yet full information on base sizes, and what it could mean for your project(s). Please note that this is quite a non-issue for probably 99% of even hardcore WHF fans, but I am kinda weird and also need to get this out of my system. 
What we know so far?
- While TOW appearently keeps the previous base conventions (squares and rectangles), all bases are bigger than they were in past editions.
- The old 20mm bases are no longer a thing.
- Models previosly on 20mm bases are now on 25mm ones.
- What was on 25mm before now seems to be on 30mm or 32mm squares, but we have no definite answer yet.
- Cavalry bases get bigger as well, possibly 30mmx60mm.
- Some units might actually stay on their previous bases (the Stone Trolls in this article look to be on their old 40mm base).
- All units will come with a defined base requirement with their rule sheet.
This opens quite a can of worms in terms of planning a new army or updating existing collections.
First of all: armies with models mostly on 20mm bases. Dwarfs, all Elves, regular human infantry, Skaven, infantry of both Undead, all Goblin infantry. Here you have at least full information on all your infantry: they will be on 25mm bases for TOW, meaning you could work on them already without any risk.
What I found is a split between those armies in two camps. On the one hand I see Dwarfs, Elves, Bretonnia and Empire as armies that benefit a good bit from "upbasing" in terms of looks. Dwarfs in particular can be a chore to rank up, and I really like the look of them being spaced out a bit. Quite a few Elven units can be tough to rank as well (Wood Elves, looking at you!), and in general all of the armies I mentioned look fine to me with their troops spread out a bit more than before.
While the same is true in terms of ease of ranking and looks for Skaven/Undead/Goblins, with these I see another issue: board space. You see, the move from 20mm to 25mm base length does not make the required area 25% bigger - it is a plus of more than 50%. So any unit with bigger bases needs more than half the area more than before. With horde armies like Skaven you could run into space issues already... just imagine the same army requiring 150% of this! I also found the look af spread out Skaven and Goblins to be not that appealing: in my opinion GW has done a fine job with Clanrats and Nightgoblins in particular, since they rank up easily and look proper crowded the way they are now.
The other group of armies is the one with infantry mostly on 25mm bases. All of Chaos and the Orc side of Greenskins. With these we have no definite answer for their base sizes at all, we just know it will be bigger than before. While I welcome this change when it comes to ranking up models - Chaos Knights and all Orc infantry in particular will be much easier to handle - it also means I can not do anything for a "dedicated TOW army" yet.
Finally there are Lizardmen and Ogres. I would not touch the Lizardmen for the time being, since they have so many different units with base sizes all over the place. The only "safe" option right now are Skinks, and I have no desire to paint any at this point in time. As for Ogres, I guess outside of Gnoblars they might just remain on their old base sizes. Everything on 40mm works just fine as it is, as do the bigger models. I am not rebasing my 50+ Ogres anyway...
For the question "How easy is it to do an army for TOW right now?" I would rank things as follows: - Dwarfs. Being mostly infantry, and with the knowledge of these being on 25mm bases for TOW, you could do 80% of a Dwarf army with models and bases available right now. Warmachines and a few other things can easily be done later, once the full rules are out in detail.
- Empire. Another army heavy on infantry, you can easily do all of that already. Cavalry and all the other things that spice up the Empire would have to wait though. Same for...
- Elves. These are a bit more reliant on cavalry and their other specialist units, which is why I ranked them (slightly) below Empire. Still, you could do any Elven infantry now, and for Dark Elves the range is even still available from GW.
- Bretonnia. No knights for now, but all of the infantry can be done. Depending on your list choices this could be a lot, or nothing at all - still ranking them here.
- Skaven. Most of the infantry can be done right now, and the model range is still available from GW. These rank lower based on the table space problem described above. Same for...
- Goblins. Armies of mostly goblins are possible (and not even terrible). For Nightgoblins you can get all their options in GW plastic right now. These rank below Skaven due to the non-goblinoid choices and the fact common Goblin infantry has not been a thing for the better part of a decade.
- Vampire Counts. See Skaven and Goblins. Ranked lower due to the bigger variety (and need) of non-infantry choices.
- Tomb Kings. Technically similar to VC, but good luck finding the models.
- Chaos Dwarfs. Exist. Their infantry can be done now, for the rest we have no clue yet.
- Lizardmen. Ranking just above Chaos and Orcs due to Skinks existing, and most of their "classic" WHF range being available from GW direct until recently.
- Chaos and Orcs. Lumping these together, as they all require infantry on a base size we do not know or have yet.
- Ogres. We have literally no idea where these wil go in terms of bases. Just don't.
So while this rambling might be quite pointless, I still remain interested on your opinion on the matter. Do you have any projects specifically for TOW in the works? What is your take on basing, and did it have any influence on your hobby recently? Let us have some random discussion, if only to kill some more time until the actual details finally drop!
|
|
|
|
Post by lordofskullpass on Sept 4, 2023 9:33:10 GMT
I'm definitely not rebasing all my Fantasy models to play TOW. However, I am making base adaptors for my 20mm base models out of thin, flat Renedra 25mm bases with cut pieces of sprue stuck on each side, so that the 20mm model can fit snugly in the middle. Those should work fine, and were pretty much free to make for me as I got the Renedra bases through some Oathmark Dwarf Heavy Infantry I'm going to be using for Middle-Earth on 25mm rounds, and the sprue bitz are offcuts from old sprues I've cut everything from.
|
|
|
|
Post by Horace on Sept 4, 2023 21:43:51 GMT
I am personally waiting to see the rules before I make any adapters. The rules could be garbage or they could call for different frontages etc which you can't anticipate right now
|
|
|
|
Post by Naitsabes on Sept 4, 2023 22:16:16 GMT
I am personally waiting to see the rules before I make any adapters. The rules could be garbage or they could call for different frontages etc which you can't anticipate right now
exactly that. Last time they swang (AoS) it was such a spectacular miss, I won't do a thing until I've seen the rules. I may stay EEFL 
or maybe the rules really work only for 'smallish' armies and so there is no point in porting over thousands of models. or scale creep is bad for some armies and so you wouldn't want weedy teenager-looking older models on the fancy new TOW battlefield.
I really don't understand the rush I see on facebook.
|
|
|
|
Post by tileag on Sept 5, 2023 1:00:56 GMT
I'll wait for the rules like others have said and if I like them and am interested, I will buy some base adapters online and play the game. I would never rebase all my models, theres no going back except re-rebasing again.
|
|
|
|
Post by Darnok on Sept 5, 2023 4:53:49 GMT
So no armies with TOW in mind in the works so far?
As pointed out in the OP, I am a bit conflicted on this. On the one hand I really really want TOW to be a success, and I am awefully tempted by the look of some of the armies on bigger bases. So there is quite some motivation to get started early, and all the buzz around that. On the other hand I have my reservations in terms of rules and the general "damn, what might they mess up this time, eh?" - we are talking about GW after all. I am painfully aware of the not so small chance of the whole thing turning out to be... not for me, to say it friendly.
Either way, I remain cautiously optimistic. I got more models for WHF painted this year than ever before, and have solid plans to continue on this course. As stated numerous times before: if TOW crashes and burns spectacularly, I always have 8th edition as a steadfast home to return to - pun intended. We are in the TOW subsection of this forum though, so I guess drumming up attention this way is appropriate here. |
|
karnus
Junior Member
Posts: 69 
|
Post by karnus on Sept 5, 2023 12:35:22 GMT
There is nothing stopping you painting up an army and basing them later.
I have a Chaos Dwarf project on the go with TOW in mind, it will
Be nice to have a bit more real estate to work with base wise.
|
|
|
|
Post by KevinC on Sept 5, 2023 13:21:21 GMT
I will not be rebasing anything.
Just as some 40K players play both 40K and Horus Hersey, I will continue to play WFB (8E) and TOW.
This means even new armies I might make will go on WFB base sizes. I will likely end up buying movement trays that work with TOW.
I'm really hoping monstrous infantry stays on 40 mm.
|
|
|
|
Post by Darnok on Sept 5, 2023 17:40:54 GMT
There is nothing stopping you painting up an army and basing them later. You are not wrong, I am doing this to myself though. Apart from rare exceptions, I always build my models, put them on bases, do the glue+sand on bases, only then prime->paint->varnish->grass them. Your suggestion of remains completely viable for others of course.
I'm really hoping monstrous infantry stays on 40 mm. Going by this image from a recent WHC article not all base sizes seem to change. Those Stone Trolls on the far right appear to be on their old 40mm base, and both Steamtank and War Altar look like they are on their old 60mmx100mm base (not sure if this actually was their older base though). Either way, the only definite measurement we have so far is the move from 20mm to 25mm.
|
|
|
|
Post by gangland on Sept 6, 2023 15:13:13 GMT
I am waiting to see what we get with The Old World. Probably do Brets with the new bases unless the rules suck then I will just revert to the old bases.
|
|
|
|
Post by TyrrenAzureblade on Sept 6, 2023 21:20:29 GMT
I was considering getting spaced trays, but the more I think about it, the less I think I even care. If the rules are going to allow every model in the fighting rank to fight, proper spacing matters a lot less. I'm going to keep my original bases, and if it becomes an issue with later rules revisions, I'm going to see if anybody makes base adapters that can be magnetized. If their ruleset emphasizes reforming frequently, a spaced tray is quickly going to be an inelegant solution. Everyone I play WFB with is keeping their old bases, so we're going to just play TOW with legacy base sizes.
|
|
|
|
Post by Horace on Sept 6, 2023 22:58:57 GMT
So no armies with TOW in mind in the works so far?
As pointed out in the OP, I am a bit conflicted on this. On the one hand I really really want TOW to be a success, and I am awefully tempted by the look of some of the armies on bigger bases. So there is quite some motivation to get started early, and all the buzz around that. On the other hand I have my reservations in terms of rules and the general "damn, what might they mess up this time, eh?" - we are talking about GW after all. I am painfully aware of the not so small chance of the whole thing turning out to be... not for me, to say it friendly.
Either way, I remain cautiously optimistic. I got more models for WHF painted this year than ever before, and have solid plans to continue on this course. As stated numerous times before: if TOW crashes and burns spectacularly, I always have 8th edition as a steadfast home to return to - pun intended. We are in the TOW subsection of this forum though, so I guess drumming up attention this way is appropriate here. I continue on my quest to collect them all regardless of TOW.. |
|
|
|
Post by KevinC on Sept 7, 2023 3:16:07 GMT
I was considering getting spaced trays, but the more I think about it, the less I think I even care. If the rules are going to allow every model in the fighting rank to fight, proper spacing matters a lot less. I'm going to keep my original bases, and if it becomes an issue with later rules revisions, I'm going to see if anybody makes base adapters that can be magnetized. If their ruleset emphasizes reforming frequently, a spaced tray is quickly going to be an inelegant solution. Everyone I play WFB with is keeping their old bases, so we're going to just play TOW with legacy base sizes. --------I had a unit on the wrong base size (because GW kept switching base sizes for Beasts of Nurgle from edition to edition) and I played them on the base size I had them on. I simply told my opponent if they think I'm gaining some advantage by them being on the wrong base size then we will simply work it out to his likely in such a situation. No one ever had an issue. I think that's a polite way to play it. |
|
|
|
Post by Luigino on Sept 7, 2023 13:55:46 GMT
Maybe it's me getting detached and cynical as I grow into this hobby; but I care less and less about what the "official" ruling is.
If anyone is really going to have a problem for a few mm they're probably not the type of person you want to give 2-3 hours of your life to to play a game.
|
|
|
|
Post by King of the Snotlings on Sept 7, 2023 14:34:18 GMT
I will not do anything for a while. I am very mixed about ToW. On one hand I am excited and happy to see the worlde of olde come "back", although for me it never really went away. I have a very nice and friendly local gaminggroup where we play 8th edition and still having a blast with it.
On the other hand, I am very sceptic about GW (in general). Not to be salty, but GW has disspointed me more often in the last 10 years or so than that they have pleasantly suprised me. So I am a bit "reserved untill proven wrong".
That is why I will not build anything at the moment. Our group has decided we will try out ToW first with old base sizes. (if I recall correctly GW has stated this is a valid option, as long as both players do so.)
If the case is that ToW will be fun and satisfying to play, we will consider making movement trays and/or base-adapters (altough hard if you use a lot of multibasing...) to be able to partake in tournaments and events outside of our group.
Only if ToW has been running (well) for a longer period of time will I consider rebasing one of my armies or simply start a new one.
It feels like a safe and sensible decision, for if ToW does not "succeed" we can simply continue with 8th or give T9A/WAP etc. a fair try.
|
|
