WoC 1500 - help me to create an unfair list

A standard loadout for a tzeentch bsb is to add a disc of tzeentch, 4++ ward item, 3rd eye/helm of tzeentch gift (not near a book to check the name). Then perhaps the enchanted shield. This gives a 1+ save and 3++ ward (rerolling 1's). Note this unkillable bsb is still surprisingly killable as he only has 2 wounds.
For the sorcerer lord you could do a similar loadout but perhaps add the fencer blades (if points allow, not sure how much the gift is). Or make him nurgle with the fencer blades as he'd be a nightmare to hit in combat and Lore of nurgle would help with the Orc toughness (Lore of death is pretty good too).
With regards to competitive/unfair lists, we can advise what works well for us but much of what makes it work is down to practice and familiarity (and how well your opponents know their list too!).
Are there units that your friends normally bring to every game? If we know that, we could probably tailor your list to counter them.

Actually another thing: While a sorc on disc is awesome and fun, the Lore of Tzeentch is...just OK. It would be AWESOME if it didn't give your opponent regeneration saves. I don't know WTF Games Workshop was thinking with that one it should have been roll a die, on a 6 they get regen, any other result they take additional wounds; not a T test as it is now. Take the lore of metal, it's actually pretty good for us. There's only one or two spells in the list that are situational. While it sucks that skaven and O&G don't have a lot of high armor the threat you can pose to his boar boyz and chariots and solo characters with the sig spell is often enough to keep him holding on to those dispel dice. Plus its an easy and effective way of putting wounds through onto a doomwheel. The number 6 spell is amazing against both armies. 5+ scaly skin on your warriors is great (1+/2+ save infantry anyone?). +1 to hit is always nice to make sure those hits connect. a permanent -1 to armor saves is always nice; even if it means they go from a 5+ to a 6+ they're now only saving half as many as they were before, and now your S4 troops are wounding them with no save allowed.

Take the chaos familiar for another spell and +1 to channel. Take either an enchanted shield or the scaly skin gift to get yourself a 1+ armor save. get a 4+ ward with the talisman of preservation for a 3+ ward save (MoT). Then take the third eye of tzeentch so you can reroll ward saves of 1. You won't go wrong either with a breath weapon on him either.

FYI if a sorc chooses MoN then he get lore of Nurgle or Lore of death. If you want the third eye and the Lore of metal then he must have MoT as the two lores you can choose from with the MoT are Tzeentch and Metal.

That means that if you want to run him on foot the warriors will need the MoT. That's not a bad thing as a 6+ ward has saved quite a few warriors for me over my many games with them.

But I'm also a Tzeentch guy through and through.

That's a better list though. Nasty at 1500 points that's for sure. If you can find points I'd try and squeeze a standard into the knights. Also if given a choice between a disc and the familiar I'd take the disc. That mobility will help you a lot. Not to mention you can warmachine hunt with your general. I'd consider dropping some warriors, I'd run them 7x3 (take 21) for max attacks against a 5-wide infantry block on similar sized bases (25mm).

At 1500 points though you can't fit everything on a DP that makes them such a terror to face. A properly tooled DP costs around 450 points...before magic levels. Fully tooled he's over 600 points.

At these points he's fine with a sorc.

I always forget that end times legalized 50% lords all the time. I ignore that and still build (and think apparently) around the 25% restriction.

I don't have my book on hand so I can't comment on how I'd field a DP with a 375 point restriction, but I can when I gain access. Although the short answer I can give you right now is...I wouldn't. IMO a daemon prince that doesn't have...scaled skin, chaos armor, soul feeder, MoN, and flight (if that fits in 375 then you're good, but I don't think it does) is a daemon prince that shouldn't be coming to the table. He needs other things to be truly effective, but those are what I would consider mandatory for him.

The MoN prince is a horde holder. He doesn't kill enough on his own to make a dent, but if he can get into combat with a unit that is WS4 or less and S4 or less then that is where he wants to spend the game. He can happily cast spells all game safe in the knowledge that he's in combat (unless he's in combat with slaves, but I'd be steering for stormvermin or plaguemonks with him; tie up their "hammer" unit all game) They'll need 6's to hit him, 5s or 6's to wound him, and he'll have a 2+ armor save, a 5+ ward save, and he regains wounds in combat on a 6 for each wound he causes. If he loses a combat he's unbreakable so...who cares!

I like the Lore of Nurgle for him as most of the lore is hex's and augments, with the number 6 being a magical vortex. That's a fun one to get off when you're in combat as you can hit a LOT of models with the large template. Also the breath weapon signature spell is also handy for thinning numbers in combat as well.

I agree gjnoronh. The Daemon Prince doesn't excel in the killy department (he's good, but not exceptional like other options in the list, among them the chimera, which I'm surprised no one's mentioned yet) but he does excel in the points denial and is a super-effective tarpit. If the opponent is relying on a horde that is WS/S 4 or less then a DP effectively takes that unit out of the game.

That's worth a lot of points to me.

However if you can get past his armor save, then he's super fragile; he's only T5 with 4 wounds and a 5++ save. Again, nurgle magic helps offset this, another reason why I'm a huge fan of the lore of nurgle.

I've only lost my DP once, and that was to a lucky single bolt from a repeater bolt thrower. He'd lost a wound from a miscast suffered earlier in the game.

If your opponent is bringing cannons/bolt throwers you have to be extra cautious with him. Those are his weaknesses. And characters with the 50 point "ignores armor saves" but you never see that anywhere, folks prefer to just beef the strength of the character to make it easier to wound and modify armor at the same time. Can't say I blame them I'm just as guilty.

Agree to all points about the daemonic steed bsb. The 3rd wound is awesome, but the T5 the mount grants is amazing too.


Man...I want to work on my Varanguard again...

Update

6points left. Am i missing something on the BSB? Ward save?


++ Standard (Warriors of Chaos - Army Book (2013-4) -V8.8.0.) [1494pts] ++

+ Lords +

Chaos Sorcerer Lord [390pts]: Disc of Tzeentch, Lore of Metal, Mark of Tzeentch, Wizard Level 4
. Chaos Mutations & Powers: Scaled Skin, Third Eye of Tzeentch
. Magic Items: BRB - Talisman of Preservation

+ Heroes +

Exalted Hero [200pts]: Battle Standard Bearer, Mark of Tzeentch
. Daemonic Mount
. . Daemonic Mount: Barding
. Magic Items: BRB - Charmed Shield

+ Core +

Chaos Chariot [110pts]

Chaos Warhounds [30pts]: 5x Chaos Warhound

Chaos Warhounds [30pts]: 5x Chaos Warhound

Chaos Warriors [444pts]
. Champion
. 21x Chaos Warrior: 21x Halberds, 21x Mark of Nurgle
. Musician
. Standard Bearer: BRB - Banner of Swiftness

+ Special +

Chaos Knights [290pts]: 7x Chaos Knight, Musician

++ Total: [1494pts] ++

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