|
|
Post by Horace on Aug 16, 2017 8:06:30 GMT
It is metal spells which all count as flaming
|
|
|
|
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 16, 2017 8:07:57 GMT
Note the comment in my previous post.
|
|
|
|
Post by Horace on Aug 16, 2017 8:09:28 GMT
Some additional comments: - There is actually an FAQ on the matter. BRB Official Update Version 1.9, p.9: Q: Do all forms of Flaming Attacks cause Fear in war beasts, cavalry and chariots? (p69) A: Yes, any model that has a Flaming Attack will cause Fear. This includes unit upgrades, models that only have ranged flaming attacks and even Wizards with spells that cause Flaming Attacks. - The only Lore where all the spells are ipso facto Flaming Attacks is the Lore of Fire. The Lore of Metal says in its Lore Attribute (BRB p. 494): "No armour saves are permitted against wounds caused by spells from the Lore of Metal, which also always count as Flaming Attacks." This could be read that all spells of the Lore of Metal are Flaming Attacks. However, in an past discussion elsewhere, it turned out that the Magic Cards specify for 4 of the 6 spells that the "Lore attribute does not apply to this spell." In other Lores, there are specific spells that are identified as FA (like Shem's Burning Gaze of the Lore of Light), and any Wizard with such a spell will cause Fear. - For Empire Players: Soulfire itself is not a Flaming Attack - therefore a WP does not cause Fear, until after Soulfire has been successfully cast. Interesting, I don't recall seeing this on the magic cards. I will have to check when I get home. I never realised that access to any form of flaming attacks caused fear either. That is exactly the sort of rule I will forget every time. |
|
|
|
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 16, 2017 8:28:10 GMT
The weight of the magic cards in a rules discussion is, of course, somewhat dubious. To give another example: the magic card regarding the Comet of Casandora (Lore of Heavens) specifies that the Lore Attribute does not apply to the Comet. However, according to the FAQ (BRB Official Update Version 1.9, p. 14):
Q: Is a flying unit that is hit by Comet of Casandora also affected by the Roiling Skies lore attribute? (Reference)
A: Yes.
Does FAQ > magic card?
|
|
|
|
Post by Horace on Aug 16, 2017 8:56:42 GMT
In which case you can infer that all Metal & Fire wizards (and any other wizards with flaming spells) DO cause fear, as do the Bret archers. Will try and remember that  |
|
|
|
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 16, 2017 9:42:37 GMT
Be prepared for disagreement on the Metal spells, if your opponent uses the magic cards. Best try to clear it beforehand.
|
|
|
|
Post by mottdon on Aug 16, 2017 13:18:59 GMT
So as far as the Lore of Light goes, any wizard with Shem's Burning Gaze causes Fear, not just any wizard from the Lore of Light. Is this correct, or is it any wizard who has the option to take that spell that will cause Fear? If it is the latter, that could have a huge impact for armies sporting a Light Council. That also raises the issue of the Luminark. Would it cause Fear due to being from the Lore of Light?
|
|
|
|
Post by Horace on Aug 16, 2017 13:27:53 GMT
So as far as the Lore of Light goes, any wizard with Shem's Burning Gaze causes Fear, not just any wizard from the Lore of Light. Is this correct, or is it any wizard who has the option to take that spell that will cause Fear? If it is the latter, that could have a huge impact for armies sporting a Light Council. That also raises the issue of the Luminark. Would it cause Fear due to being from the Lore of Light? I assume it would have to have the flaming spell |
|
|
|
Post by avatarofbugman on Aug 16, 2017 13:41:17 GMT
If you don't have the spell that causes flaming attacks, you don't cause fear. In game you need to have flaming attacks.
|
|
|
|
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 16, 2017 14:27:23 GMT
What Horace and avatarofbugman said.
To quote BRB p. 69 again: "Enemies with Flaming Attacks cause Fear in war beasts, cavalry and chariots." If you do not have FA, you do not cause Fear. If the Bowmen do not have the brazier upgrade, they do not cause Fear. Similarly, if the Light Wizard does not have a spell that is a FA, he does not cause Fear.
Any weapon, equipment or spell needs to be somewhere in its description identified as "Flaming Attack."(1) As explained above, ALL the spells of the Lore of Fire (and arguably the Lore of Metal) are expressis verbis FA. That is not the case for any other Lore.
Self-evidently, if the weapon, equipment or spell with FA is lost, the model will stop causing Fear. For instance, if a Wizard would lose his FA spell(s) through Power Drain, he no longer would cause Fear.
(1) Having "flame" or "fire" in the name does not mean at all that it is a Flaming Attack (e.g. Warpflame, Soulfire).
|
|
|
|
Post by grandmasterwang on Aug 17, 2017 16:44:14 GMT
This has actually been educational with me. I would have never considered that a fire mage (let alone metal mage) causing fear against a chariot for example.
Question for the rules gurus.
Say I put a Prophet/wizard with Lore of fire in a unit of ordinary troops (Chaos dwarf warriors for example) and they get charged by say a unit of tomb king chariots.
Do the unit of soldiers (chaos dwarfs) have to take a fear test?
As they now cause fear themselves via the fire wizard in the unit?
|
|
|
|
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 17, 2017 16:59:20 GMT
Yes, the Chaos Dwarfs must take a Fear test at the start of each round of CC. It is only the Wizard that causes Fear, not the unit he is in.
BRB p. 69: Models that cause Fear are themselves immune to Fear, and are not affected by any of this rule's effects (even if their unit fails its test, for example).
|
|
|
|
Post by knoffles on Aug 17, 2017 20:05:40 GMT
Yes, the Chaos Dwarfs must take a Fear test at the start of each round of CC. It is only the Wizard that causes Fear, not the unit he is in. BRB p. 69: Models that cause Fear are themselves immune to Fear, and are not affected by any of this rule's effects (even if their unit fails its test, for example). So that would also apply in the case of characters armed with the shrieking blade. A unit he is in would still be subject to fear? Just the character wouldn't. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 20:10:51 GMT
So it would seem.
I didn't realize that either.
brb pg 69:
"MODELS that cause fear are themselves immune to Fear..." (emphasis mine)
|
|
|
|
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 17, 2017 20:12:13 GMT
Correct. Note also that in the case of Terror tests, it does not help to have a character causing Fear in a unit, because (BRB p. 78): "Units composed entirely of Fear- or Terror-causing models are immune to Terror and so do not take this test." Unless specified otherwise, of course, as in the case of Empire Witch Hunters.
|
|
