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Post by KevinC on Nov 10, 2015 15:49:01 GMT
First in no way am I trying to bash 9th Age, I think what they are doing is great (just making that clear). I just love 8th edition and I disagree that in needs to be fixed.
When you compare 8th edition to all other previous editions of WFB, 8th is by far the most balanced. Sure there are some things that are not perfect and they are game elements I miss from prior editions (i.e. guess range weapons), but ultimately 8th edition is superior to the other editions.
In example, I don't see a problem with 'Death Stars' for the most part. It is a 'put all your eggs in one basket' trick and can seriously backfire on you. Not to mention there are a bunch a devastating spells out there that can cripple such tactics.
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Post by mottdon on Nov 10, 2015 16:28:32 GMT
I agree, and the group that I play with are sticking with 8th. At least for now. None of us are incredibly motivated to learn new rules, especially when they are so far from being finished. I think 9th age will offer a new "breath of fresh air" for many players who were hoping that is what AoS would be, but it is by no means the only or even best, way of playing.
I don't really have a problem with Death Stars for the same reason you mentioned above, too. One of my main opponents runs Ogres and when we first started playing each other, he routinely gravitated toward the Death Star build, but the more and more we played, he began to see how much that would backfire on him and started gravitating toward medium sized units, which worked much better for him.
In the long run it comes down to style of play and what works for you. I love 8th edition and the group I play with doesn't try to abuse the rules so that it's not any fun. We just do things that make sense. We aren't really tournament players, just a group of guys getting together for a fun time. I think that really helps us.
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Post by mottdon on Nov 10, 2015 16:32:03 GMT
I just read the description of the night goblin conga line thing...made me laugh. For me, I would never even think to do that. Honestly I don't think I even know anyone who would do that either. It's too bad that people felt they had to rewrite a nice game because some people strategize about how to be an asshole. Yeah, I saw that happen one time at our LGS and it was quickly banned (house rule of course). File it under the douche-bag category. There was something else that went under that category with regards to Dark Elves and magic. I forgot the details of what it was, but someone had figured out how to have a perpetual magic phase using (I think) Death magic lore trait, the sacrificial dagger thing, and something else (I can't remember what). Basically, they kept generating power dice long after their initial dice count and had a lv4 and lv2 that could cast with plenty of spells until they simply had cast everything at least once. Add in other magic items like the Ruby Ring, then there was practically nothing left after their magic phase. All-in-all, it was a good strategy, but simply not any fun for the opposite player. Kinda like the gunline mentality, but felt way worse.
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Post by Anton on Nov 12, 2015 8:44:42 GMT
These guys who play international highly competitive tournaments like ETC need to handle a level of WAAC most of us never see even in big tournaments. It makes sense for them to outright forbid exploits that most of us would never dream of doing.
I stand firmly with one foot in 8th and one in 9th because of the different groups I play with. I would have been happy to just continue with 8th but most of the guys at the club like to go to tournaments and the national scene is strongly in favour of 9th. I know of 1 tournament that is planned for AoS, 0 for 8th and 0 for KoW. The rest is 9th. In the family it'll still be 8th because it's ideal for big and/or narrative games so there is really no reason to make a switch. I think I can keep the rulesets apart in my head.
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Post by mottdon on Nov 12, 2015 14:40:18 GMT
I must admit, I am very intrigued by 9th Age. It sounds like a good solution to some of the rules issues that have bothered me like Steadfast. There are so many changes going on right now that I'll just have to reserve my judgement as to if I like it or not, but 8th will certainly be my main go-to for a long time yet. As you say, Anton, there is no need for me to change right now. All the guys I play with kinda follow my lead there since I am the one who will sit down and scrutinize the rules and let them know how to play.
My main problem with 9th right now is all the confusion of their web page. It is so difficult to find anything there without digging and digging to find an answer. There should be a VERY clear and concise location of rules, magic and questions. As of right now, it seems like a huge jumble of opinions. I am never sure if I am looking at the most current version of the rules either.
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Post by Anton on Nov 12, 2015 16:26:03 GMT
All the current rules documents are under the Rules tab, but if you don't want to be involved in the design process you might as well wait until December because that's when the first 'stable' version will be nailed down. After that, changes will be further apart.
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Post by mottdon on Nov 12, 2015 17:46:19 GMT
Oh, okay. I see it now. It was confusing to me at first. All I saw were tons and tons of topics regarding specific topics. I had no idea how to find answers to specific questions. The Rules tab makes sense though. I missed that part.
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Post by dannytee on Nov 14, 2015 20:30:27 GMT
It's too bad that people felt they had to rewrite a nice game because some people strategize about how to be an asshole. I never really thought about it like this but in a lot of ways it is true.
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Post by mottdon on Nov 16, 2015 16:20:26 GMT
BatReps are starting to come out using 9th. Seems like it's picking up some steam.
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Post by roughtimes on Dec 18, 2015 22:13:58 GMT
It's too bad that people felt they had to rewrite a nice game because some people strategize about how to be an asshole. I never really thought about it like this but in a lot of ways it is true. That's some it, but most gamers don't want to play what they consider a dead game. That's a big reason why ninth age has a chance to succeed.
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Post by gjnoronh on Mar 22, 2016 21:12:45 GMT
Just wanted to provide feedback on my first handful of games of 9th. I played in the Crossroads GT at the beginning of March and had one test game prior. I was coming into this a bit skeptical of the 9th age movement.
I was really impressed by the experience. The last two years of 8th or so for me weren't as much fun as the early part. 9th really made the system better IMO. Magic was toned down but made actually more interesting with more varied spell effects with boosting. ASF was given enough of a tweak that it didn't feel quite as painful to be on the receiving end of a tooled up ASF character (mathematically similar mind you.) The armies I played against (2 x TK, 2x HE, 1 x Empire, 1 x Ogres) retained their character but the 'obvious' 8th ed choices weren't all as obvious and units that had languished got enough of a fluff appropriate buff to be really entertaining (skirmishing Forsaken for example.)
I had a number of guys at Crossroads who are previous 8th Ed GT attendees and they all liked 9th better (admittedly if you weren't interested in trying out 9th you weren't going to be there to ask!)
I get it the fantasy community is fractured -but I really think the 9th system is worth a try to see what folks think. There is a small adjustment but by the end of the weekend I felt like I was playing competitively and understanding the rules. Heck when folks weren't too sure what do we just 'did it the way we did it in 8th.'
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Mar 23, 2016 1:19:09 GMT
Fair. I would try a game of 9th. I am sure its got some good points. Thanks for the feedback Gary.
My issue is, and always has been, I don't want to remember 2 (or 3) rule sets. It's tough enough having bits of 4th and 5th and 6th rules all jumbled in there with the current 8th set.
I feel like our campaign is still set in the world of eighth. Hence, I don't see my 9th Age excursions being more that dipping a toe in the water. I still haven't played 9th... and I always feel like I can't knock it til I try it.
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Post by Anton on May 1, 2016 5:32:53 GMT
The 9th Age has finally reached the first stable version, 1.0! Read more below. ***
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Post by KevinC on May 4, 2016 15:35:50 GMT
Looks impressive, certainly a lot of work put into this.
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Post by avatarofbugman on May 4, 2016 23:21:42 GMT
I agree. The only reason I roll my eyes is when I read the constant statements of how balanced it is, etc. ETC tourneys have had roughly the same armies at the top for some time, and it is not reasonable to believe that some armies won't have an advantage here as well. Just because it was designed by tourney guys doesn't make it balanced.
It does have a lot of heart in it and the army books are intriguing.
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