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Post by mahbruck on Apr 7, 2017 21:42:15 GMT
It is super lame as it makes the unit basically immune to Daemons. Anyone with any decency would not take the banner against DoC But then Deamons are so OP it serves them right  ! In my last battle, a huge Dragon Prince unit with BotWD got repeatedly trounced by Dweller Below, Halfling hotpot and humble pikemen no less. It is not that bad  |
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Post by vulcan on Apr 7, 2017 22:25:52 GMT
And just to add insult to injury, the Banner of the Crutch Dragon was ruled by GW to work on miscasts as well.
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Post by mahbruck on Apr 7, 2017 23:10:34 GMT
It's so apt that one of Ulthuan.net's most infamous threads about this banner is: "Banner of the World Dragon: Sweet Tears of Nerdrage"  |
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Post by dannytee on Apr 8, 2017 14:40:49 GMT
7th ed Daemons were very good. But in 8th they really didn't shine very much. I think some of the hate is carry over from the 7th ed experience Supporting attacks, and steadfast made those 5+ save high cost infantry less attractive. The 8th ed book is more luck dependent then 7th as it's Reign of Chaos (is that the right term?) table could be useless or game breaking (in either direction) on any given day. I agree that the 8th Edition Daemons book is not over the top by any means. |
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Post by dannytee on Apr 8, 2017 14:46:59 GMT
I am surprised that HE are getting so many shouts as the number 1 army. Sure ASF is powerful, but they are T3 with basically no armour! This may be a crutch but they are the glassiest of glass cannons. I have just never really struggled too badly against HE, maybe it is my playstyle. And if you know in advance you are playing HE it is even easier to mitigate the ASF with your army choices. Rich said something very similar to this somewhere earlier in this thread and I tend to agree. They are a good book but the T3 helps to balance the book out. |
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Post by dannytee on Apr 8, 2017 14:56:47 GMT
>> He had a pocket laser pointer and the "Lines of Sight" he drew with it would originate in a very obscure corner of the base of his Ironblaster for some very, IMHO, unfair shots. He would use the head of the actual model to determine true line of sight and then draw whatever geometric theoretical line he wanted. Typically, this meant he was able to draw a line through 4 of my Demigryphs at any given time. This was (1) a gaming advantage for him and (2) took a lot of time and (3) felt very NOT in the spirit of the game. I am never one to call a TO so I just played on (and won). The ironblaster is a chariot, right? So line of sight would need to come from the front arc of the mini, not a back corner. Now because the ironblaster is so large and tall it would end up being able to see over more than say an empire or dwarf cannon. But no doubt in my mind the LoS would need to be from the front arc. |
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Apr 8, 2017 16:43:28 GMT
I think (going on memory here) he said it was "like a chariot, but a unique unit in other regards".
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Post by vulcan on Apr 8, 2017 21:16:11 GMT
>> He had a pocket laser pointer and the "Lines of Sight" he drew with it would originate in a very obscure corner of the base of his Ironblaster for some very, IMHO, unfair shots. He would use the head of the actual model to determine true line of sight and then draw whatever geometric theoretical line he wanted. Typically, this meant he was able to draw a line through 4 of my Demigryphs at any given time. This was (1) a gaming advantage for him and (2) took a lot of time and (3) felt very NOT in the spirit of the game. I am never one to call a TO so I just played on (and won). The ironblaster is a chariot, right? So line of sight would need to come from the front arc of the mini, not a back corner. Now because the ironblaster is so large and tall it would end up being able to see over more than say an empire or dwarf cannon. But no doubt in my mind the LoS would need to be from the front arc. It fires like a cannon. Cannons draw LOS from the barrel. So for shooting the Ironblaster draws LOS from the barrel. |
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Post by Anaris on Apr 19, 2017 0:19:01 GMT
I'm sorry, I just don't see WoC being top Tier. I'm 11 games in with them. I won once, had 3 draws and lost 7 times, 4 of the 7 times I got tabled. I'm not a bad player either. Today I played against Walter's empire, which you guys may remember, he used to post on here but he is a Rochester local. I guess it was because he had first turn and cannon ball my demon prince and did 4 wounds which caused me to lose my only wizard which was lvl 4.
My 3 skull crushers took a charge from 4 demi gryph knights and won that combat by 1 lol.
But yeah, WoC has the potential to bring the craziest lords and heroes, but overall imho they are not the best army. I wouldn't even put them in top 3.
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Post by TheREALricksalamone on Apr 19, 2017 2:14:54 GMT
Walter is great. He's a Boldoite as well?
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Post by Anaris on Apr 19, 2017 9:34:27 GMT
Walter is great. He's a Boldoite as well? I don't think so, he's more of a Stillmanite. I played him at millennium after he got done with a game of 40k. |
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Post by frozenfood on Apr 19, 2017 10:17:22 GMT
I'll be a Frozenite...handsome and losing |
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Post by vulcan on Apr 19, 2017 16:53:26 GMT
The main problem with WOC is their very strength. Their best troops are SO hard it's easy to load up on them, walk straight forward, and smash everything in their path. Which works fine... until you run into a general who understands the advantages of fire and maneuver, and uses it against you.
The weaker troops are in the book for a reason. You need them to bulk out your forces, soak enemy fire, screen your elites, and counter enemy maneuver. Neglect them at your own risk.
Once I proxied my DE army using WOC rules and played them with basically DE tactics. They were terrifyingly effective that way....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 18:22:08 GMT
I'm sorry, I just don't see WoC being top Tier. I'm 11 games in with them. I won once, had 3 draws and lost 7 times, 4 of the 7 times I got tabled. I'm not a bad player either. Today I played against Walter's empire, which you guys may remember, he used to post on here but he is a Rochester local. I guess it was because he had first turn and cannon ball my demon prince and did 4 wounds which caused me to lose my only wizard which was lvl 4. My 3 skull crushers took a charge from 4 demi gryph knights and won that combat by 1 lol. But yeah, WoC has the potential to bring the craziest lords and heroes, but overall imho they are not the best army. I wouldn't even put them in top 3. My first response to this is "why could the cannon see your Daemon Prince on T1?" Could just be you're not playing with enough terrain. Also, if there's no LoS blocking terrain hide your DP behind trolls or a chimera (or two). The cannon has to KILL everything in front to reach the DP. Monstrous models that aren't killed by a cannonball stop the cannonball. I do this all the time with my throgg and friends list. Unfortunately cannons are the Achilles Heel of our Daemon Princes. And they SHOULD have some kind of weakness. What else does the empire have that has a reasonable chance of stopping a Daemon Prince? I don't begrudge them their cannons. Sucks when they work, but they have AT BEST two turns of shooting before that DP is stuck in combat where it can't be shot. Also think about a charmed shield. It's CHEAP and a 2++ against the first hit (hopefully a cannon, but a good opponent would know to shoot something weak at it first, try not to let that happen) is good defense against cannons. |
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Apr 19, 2017 18:36:11 GMT
Also think about a charmed shield. It's CHEAP and a 2++ against the first hit (hopefully a cannon, but a good opponent would know to shoot something weak at it first, try not to let that happen) is good defense against cannons. I almost always take 10 (or 12) archers or crossbows in my Empire lists for exactly this reason. 100 points to negate a 5 point item so I can kill some sort of 300 point monster. I think the MathHammer works out there, robble robble. |
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! In my last battle, a huge Dragon Prince unit with BotWD got repeatedly trounced by Dweller Below, Halfling hotpot and humble pikemen no less. It is not that bad 
