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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 18:42:25 GMT
Also think about a charmed shield. It's CHEAP and a 2++ against the first hit (hopefully a cannon, but a good opponent would know to shoot something weak at it first, try not to let that happen) is good defense against cannons. I almost always take 10 (or 12) archers or crossbows in my Empire lists for exactly this reason. 100 points to negate a 5 point item so I can kill some sort of 300 point monster. I think the MathHammer works out there, robble robble. Only 300 points? My DP is closer to 500...
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Post by Horace on Apr 21, 2017 8:06:51 GMT
If Cannons aren't there to kill high ticket items in the first 1-2 turns then what other purpose do they serve? True in an ideal 9th edition I would have liked to see the laser guided rules tweaked a little but that is literally the only use for cannons really. In those turns your job is to mitigate the risk to the stuff you don't want smashed to pieces.
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Post by gjnoronh on Apr 21, 2017 13:26:33 GMT
agree entirely. The more points you put in that little bucket of wounds the more important it is for you to protect it from shooting it off before it gets stuck in.
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Post by knoffles on May 14, 2017 20:40:17 GMT
It all depends what you mean by best. Above are all valid arguments but I love O&G as the number of choices are insane and the random rules and way things can backfire mean I've never had a bad game even when it's all gone tits up. If i'm not laughing at some point during the game i'd be surprised. Very much recommend them if you want guaranteed fun (though if you hate randomness and elements out of your control i'd probably pass).
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Post by frozenfood on May 15, 2017 5:19:35 GMT
That could be another poll, which is the most fun army. OnG are fun, a skaven WLC that spins in a random direction and fires S10 is also a fun moment. And the DOOMWHEEL that gets out of control two turns in a row, I was wondering if it was a NPC.
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Post by michael on Oct 8, 2017 14:29:53 GMT
Are Demons still as as strong now as they were in 7th ed ? I could never beat them with my Dwarfs.
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Post by henning on Oct 8, 2017 15:35:13 GMT
Just saw this thread and I see many say WoC... lol. WoC can’t deal with a good Wood elf player so they aren’t top spot.
It’s difficult to choose 1 army as top spot but I chose Dark Elves as I think they are one of the armies with all the tools to be great and have some of the most OP units in the game... doomfire warlocks. They also have a pretty good matchup vs another top tier army, High Elves.
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Post by knoffles on Oct 8, 2017 20:30:20 GMT
I realised I didn't vote last time (so cheers for bumping the thread henning. I've put HE's and DE's as my votes. Neither are necessarily the easiest armies to play but ive found both to be a nightmare to face. They each have a couple of filthy special characters that can make some lists even worse. I've heard WE's are are filth to play (not in my hands though) but one of the harder armies to master. Warriors are tough but as many said, they are a sledgehammer mainly. DoC are a bit too random. Yes the cannon is deadly but the rest isn't too frightening.
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Post by Horace on Oct 9, 2017 9:07:58 GMT
Are Demons still as as strong now as they were in 7th ed ? I could never beat them with my Dwarfs. Nowhere near the 7th edition Daemons book, playing in 8th edition, was incredibly difficult to beat. My record against it was 1 win to god-knows-how-many losses. It was pure filth. The heralds were all basically no brainers. The Daemonic gifts were ridiculously powerful. The core troops were all bargains. They are a super fast army in general so it was difficult to even gunline them off the board. In 8th they are still decent but have been brought back more to reality. The Heralds have gone up in points and you now have to buy the abilities they pass to units. The Daemonic gifts have also been toned right down, they are now randomly generated. This all means that taking Heralds and pumping points into upgrades for them requires some thought. The core troops have all gone up in points. They are still very good but now feel more like a high priced elite army to me.
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Post by michael on Oct 9, 2017 18:41:30 GMT
Thank you Horace. That's good to hear.
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Post by avatarofbugman on Oct 9, 2017 18:53:53 GMT
Are Demons still as as strong now as they were in 7th ed ? I could never beat them with my Dwarfs. Nowhere near the 7th edition Daemons book, playing in 8th edition, was incredibly difficult to beat. My record against it was 1 win to god-knows-how-many losses. It was pure filth. The heralds were all basically no brainers. The Daemonic gifts were ridiculously powerful. The core troops were all bargains. They are a super fast army in general so it was difficult to even gunline them off the board. In 8th they are still decent but have been brought back more to reality. The Heralds have gone up in points and you now have to buy the abilities they pass to units. The Daemonic gifts have also been toned right down, they are now randomly generated. This all means that taking Heralds and pumping points into upgrades for them requires some thought. The core troops have all gone up in points. They are still very good but now feel more like a high priced elite army to me. I agree with this assessment. They are great fun to play.
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Post by Sunfangsunburn on Oct 9, 2017 22:59:12 GMT
At my local club Lizardmen, High Elves, and Dark Elves reigned supreme at its hight. WoC should have but 1 player was a full fluff list player and he always brought Sigvald (he is one of the most fun players I've had the luck to play) and the other player is a WAAC player who doesn't read his army book and is so predictable he never wins. I have a few HE lists myself I won't run (they are not fun to fight at all but I can't help but theory craft them).
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Oct 10, 2017 23:16:10 GMT
On that note, I NEVER take a dispel scroll. NEVER. On that note, I ALWAYS take a dispel scroll. ALWAYS. lol I try and take two with my Brets and Dwarves (double runes usually) I voted WoC even though they lack missile fire they tend to do well in the other phases of the battle. Of course each army is situational depending on what list it is but Empire potentially can do pretty much everything, all the magic lores, best black powder weapons (barring runes but point for point)but it takes a skillful general to bring it all together. Greg
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Post by mottdon on Oct 11, 2017 12:33:18 GMT
On that note, I ALWAYS take a dispel scroll. ALWAYS. lol I try and take two with my Brets and Dwarves (double runes usually) I voted WoC even though they lack missile fire they tend to do well in the other phases of the battle. Of course each army is situational depending on what list it is but Empire potentially can do pretty much everything, all the magic lores, best black powder weapons (barring runes but point for point)but it takes a skillful general to bring it all together. Greg THANK YOU! I truly believe that Empire could be really good if more players actually mixed their lists up a little. Most just use the Stank or HBVG as a crutch though. (I don't even think the Stank is that good.) On the topic of Dwarves bringing multiple dispel runes, how much is too much? Let's say they Dwarf player brings 1 Runelord and 2 Runesmiths. The Runelord is equipped with 2 x Rune of Spellbreaking and a Rune of Balance (and other stuff maybe). One of the Runesmiths has 2 x Rune of Spellbreaking and the other has 2 x Rune of Spellbreaking and a Rune of the Furnace. - Too much?
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Oct 11, 2017 14:06:56 GMT
Pull up a sand bag...
Many moons ago when there was the Erranty army list, the vampire counts had a vampire only list, I seem to remember that they needed a necromancer to make things work, this list from one of the supplements used bound items (we used grave markers) to summon the undead to the battlefield.
The Rune lord added two dispel dice to your pile, a rune smith just one. The rune of balance took one from your opponents pile, I can’t remember (other than a +2 (+4 overall) what the rune of Valaya did but I went massively heavy on anti magic. So much so I negated each and every grave marker. My bonuses just needed a single point so I used a single die and they were stopped. This meant my opponent just rolled more dice and hoped that he rolled more double sixes than double ones.
He did.
I can’t remember how many points I invested in anti magic but I’d never do it again, it’s a lesson well learned. I’ve come up against many opponents (mainly WoC) that have dropped magic altogether against my dwarves, and while a rune smith isn’t the greatest fighter, the armour piecing rule actually still makes them a nice addition to the list.
I tend to play with two rune smiths and have double runes on them both. Sure I get the idea that I could be wasting points in some games but in others it’s a god send. I don’t play pure gun line, I do take combat troops but Dwarves lend themselves to castling and by their very nature a smaller compact area of deployment is usual. Anyone telling you differently has usually gone out of their way and taken vanguard runes or all combat lists. Anyway, the double runes, against spells such as Cracks call can ruin (see what I did there) a dwarf army. Can’t say I’m a fan of the bell either, the deafening peels are something I like to avoid.
Greg
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