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Post by mottdon on Aug 10, 2021 12:48:58 GMT
I think you're pretty close there, Sweet_Totally.
Wouldn't it be cool if they had more than one option for a core set?!? As in, Kislev vs Chaos, Brets vs Orcs, Hobgoblin vs Cathy, Dwarf Slayers vs Chaos Dwarfs, Empire vs Empire, High Elves vs Dark Elves, Lizardmen vs Skaven, etc. This'll never happen, of course, because....money. But wouldn't it be cool!?! Choose your own destiny version!
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Post by Sweet_Totally on Aug 10, 2021 13:30:54 GMT
Would indeed be the dog's bollocks. Hopefully, if TOW proves successful we might see more boxes like that down the line.
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beastyboy
Full Member
5th eddition lizardmen !
Posts: 227
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Post by beastyboy on Aug 10, 2021 16:56:17 GMT
Look i hate to spoil it all for you all ,but from what I hear its going to be beastmen vs beastmen in the battle of beastoff!!
Right guys? !!!
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Post by sedge on Aug 10, 2021 18:26:30 GMT
Based on my expectation that the start set will have Kislev vs Chaos (Undivided) I reckon it will include something along the lines of this: For Kislev: A general mounted on a polar bear. An ice witch on foot. Some of that axe-gun infantry we've seen in the TWW3 trailer. Some kislevite archers. Winged hussars. For Chaos: Chaos Lord or Sorcerer on a chariot. Marauder BSB on foot. New viking-style Marauders. Spawns. Warhounds. I reckon that's pretty close to what we'd see if those were the armies. But probably not the chariot, as WoC have an impressive chariot already. Marauders would definitely be a good way of providing necesssary new models for a "Warriors of Chaos" force (there are new actual Chaos Warriors/Knights from AoS that I expect will be ported over to TOW) and also keeping the narrative build up, so the big bad Chaos Warriors appear on the field/storyline later on when Magnus the Pious gets involved at the main invasion. Or it could go slightly off-piste with a Norsca army based off the Total War: Warhammer one.
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Post by Sweet_Totally on Aug 10, 2021 21:58:14 GMT
I'd be somewhat surprised if they didn't end up making a vikingesque Norscan-subfaction for Chaos down the road or atleast provided models and units so that you could field one in whatever the new WoC army will be (which I personally hope will be something more akin to the merging of beasts, daemons and mortals as was the case in 6th ed.). My thinking behind the Chaos general on a chariot was for them to clearly signal that such models (i.e characters on big warmachines and monsters) are not going to suffer from the posibility of being shot off their mount. I'm fairly sure that GW are going to be giving all such models shared stats to encourage the big centrepiece models that they are so found of.
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Post by lordofskullpass on Aug 11, 2021 8:19:37 GMT
Look i hate to spoil it all for you all ,but from what I hear its going to be beastmen vs beastmen in the battle of beastoff!! Right guys? !!! Oh yeah, I'd be down for that, a boxed game where you'd be able to use both forces to make one mega army
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Post by sedge on Aug 11, 2021 11:16:27 GMT
My thinking behind the Chaos general on a chariot was for them to clearly signal that such models (i.e characters on big warmachines and monsters) are not going to suffer from the posibility of being shot off their mount. I'm fairly sure that GW are going to be giving all such models shared stats to encourage the big centrepiece models that they are so found of. Ah yes, that would be good to see - having mounted models work relatively consistently across the different types. I wasn't keen on how they did that in the End Times (merged attacks, strength etc.) which came up with silly things like all of Imrik's attacks getting a strength bonus from his lance on the charge, even the dragon's. Separate profiles for attacking would be better, but shared for "defensive" stats such as Toughness and Wounds. I quite liked the End Times adding the wounds figures together for mount + rider, rather than using the highest value the way that current Monstrous Cavalry do. But then I like my big monsters!
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Post by mottdon on Aug 11, 2021 13:07:52 GMT
My thinking behind the Chaos general on a chariot was for them to clearly signal that such models (i.e characters on big warmachines and monsters) are not going to suffer from the posibility of being shot off their mount. I'm fairly sure that GW are going to be giving all such models shared stats to encourage the big centrepiece models that they are so found of. I quite liked the End Times adding the wounds figures together for mount + rider, rather than using the highest value the way that current Monstrous Cavalry do. But then I like my big monsters! So you'd add the Wounds of the mount and character together? For example: you'd add the 8 wounds of an Arachnarok to the 3 wounds of a Great Goblin Shaman for a total of 11 wounds? Or an unkillable Chaos Lord riding something like a Chaos Dragon for what, 8-9 wounds? Sure, it's a chunk of points, but points denial to the max. I could totally see that being abused.
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Post by sedge on Aug 11, 2021 16:40:56 GMT
Well the Arachnarok is a tricky one, as you've got a load of goblins on the top too, so that could end up as a crazy number.
Combined profiles are hard to do, because if you just use the highest Wounds value between mount and rider then a dragon has no more wounds whether it flies solo or has a Chaos Lord on top, which doesn't make sense. But then if the Chaos Lord's 1+/4++ saves apply to the whole model, it becomes an absolute beast. You'd need to balance the saves somehow.
Overall though, I would love to see ridden monsters become harder to kill, and I dislike the arbitrary split between some models being able to lose their mounts, and others not.
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Post by adso13 on Aug 12, 2021 2:23:23 GMT
I quite liked the End Times adding the wounds figures together for mount + rider, rather than using the highest value the way that current Monstrous Cavalry do. But then I like my big monsters! So you'd add the Wounds of the mount and character together? For example: you'd add the 8 wounds of an Arachnarok to the 3 wounds of a Great Goblin Shaman for a total of 11 wounds? Or an unkillable Chaos Lord riding something like a Chaos Dragon for what, 8-9 wounds? Sure, it's a chunk of points, but points denial to the max. I could totally see that being abused. It's only really a problem if the only way you can win a battle is by getting the points from killing models. If you have a system where you have objectives to secure or mission goals, that unkillable Chaos Lord on a dragon suddenly isn't so abusable since he can only secure a single objective at a time. He's still useful because he can kill a ton of stuff, but not really abuseable. I just want Karl Franz on Deathclaw to be useful and combined profiles make that easier.
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Post by mottdon on Aug 12, 2021 5:15:48 GMT
Well the Arachnarok is a tricky one, as you've got a load of goblins on the top too, so that could end up as a crazy number. Combined profiles are hard to do, because if you just use the highest Wounds value between mount and rider then a dragon has no more wounds whether it flies solo or has a Chaos Lord on top, which doesn't make sense. But then if the Chaos Lord's 1+/4++ saves apply to the whole model, it becomes an absolute beast. You'd need to balance the saves somehow. Overall though, I would love to see ridden monsters become harder to kill, and I dislike the arbitrary split between some models being able to lose their mounts, and others not. I hear you. It would be cool to make them worth taking again. Fine line though. You don't want them to be too over powered.
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Post by strutsagget on Aug 12, 2021 6:10:49 GMT
Overpowered for me is more or less connected to points. As long as the points costs reflect the power it is fine. But yes ridden monsters needs to be better and maybe the EoT combined rules is the way to go.
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Post by TyrrenAzureblade on Aug 12, 2021 19:50:24 GMT
As someone who's looking to field a High Elf Prince on dragon against cannons, I'm all for combining the models, wounds, and those sweet ward saves I paid points for. I'd run Imrik with End Times rules, but g'damn is he way more expensive than a generic Prince on Star Dragon. Then again, that's ten S10 attacks on the charge, and ten S7 in subsequent combat rounds...
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Post by Naitsabes on Aug 12, 2021 21:03:39 GMT
hey! who remembers shooting at chariots, killing a draught creature and watch the pitiful chariot crawl along at half speed? Bad old days.
At first I hated it when ridden monstrous beasts became single profile (was a change for 8th edition, right?). Now I think that was a good call. Similarly I like the split statline of rider/monster as it is, it allows more granularity. And, how awesome is it to make e.g. a proud Dragon Rider walk for the rest of the battle?!? But, I suspect I could get used to combined profiles. I haven't played with/against End Times dudes enough to have an informed opinion.
(all this is leaving out balance issues which I think is a separate thing)
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 12, 2021 21:51:46 GMT
Apparently, there are a lot of Herohammer fans about. That cure is worse than the disease. As I have been maintaining from when the 8th edition came out, there needs to be this change: randomising template attacks between monster and mount. In addition, a good general will use tactics, for instance like KevinC 's cannon defence.
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