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Post by avatarofbugman on Jul 11, 2015 12:25:07 GMT
I think it needs to be playtested before we say it is too much.
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Post by cwalker on Jul 11, 2015 12:25:05 GMT
Adding Impact Hits is a nice idea. I really like using rules that are currently in the game as a way to shore up unit rather than inventing new ones.
That being said I am all for altering the Steadfast rule so that it is lost if a unit is Disrupted.
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Post by KevinC on Jul 11, 2015 12:48:52 GMT
--------------No. When you are reading the rules forget the old book. Lance formation simply means that the knights can be a horde with only 6 models and on the charge the enemy loses steadfast.
However, I'm completely open to changing this. I like the devastating charge and impact hits (1) special rules. I'd like to see some play testing experiences though.
-------------Oversite, they can have a banner, I'll fix that in the next draft.
--------------We'll lets see. I'm aware of greatswords. They are S3 and Templars are S4, which means Templars are S6 is you give them great weapons. Greatswords are are stubborn. Templars are immune to panic and have a 6+ ward....this becomes 5+ ward if the player prays.
-----------Cool!
-------------The reason I wrote this rule is because I feel the Brets should have this special thing where people will be afraid of their charge. I don't agree with all the changes people want to make to the core rules regarding this, but it could work for just the bretonnians.
---------------As of now, no defensive pikes. I felt it was a gimmick. The special stuff should be for the Knights.
----------So the standard Duke comes on foot and you have the option of a barded warhorse. Dukes on Hippogryph and pegasus, have combined profiles and so come as a package.
------------No.
----------Thanks, I think it would be a fun option.
------------I thinking about no virtues....what do people think? I always felt the idea was "how do we makes bretonnians special? oh lets give them these special abilities that are no magic items". Anyway, I liked to here what people think about them.
---------Great!
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Post by KevinC on Jul 11, 2015 12:58:41 GMT
Walker, welcome to the forum, I'm glad you joined.
So, Lance formation simply means the knights get horde formation when 6 wide, rather than 10 and the enemy unit they charged loses steadfast on the turn the knights charged. I'm open to changing this, but I want to play test this. I want players to really fear the bretonnian charge.
Also, I think the best path for EEFL, is to not mess with the core rulebook. An 8.5 or 9.0 edition could cause too much confusion. I think the way to go with the rules aspect is to create new army books and expansions, rather than replace current official 8th edition rules. There may be minor issues here and there that people don't like with the current rulebook, but that usually comes down to personal taste. All things considered, 8th is the most balanced edition.
-----------The point you make here is exactly why the main core rules should not change. As a Goblin player myself, I love steadfast. I don't mind if there is one army out their that negates it. My Gobbos would be terrified of the Bretonnian charge (as they should), but I'd like to think I could come up with tactics to counter them.
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Post by cwalker on Jul 11, 2015 13:01:47 GMT
I would build the Knightly virtues into the army list entries for the Paladins and Lords.
There were only a few of them that Bret players took anyway - Virtue of Knightly Temper, Virtue of Heroism, Virtue of Duty (on the BSB), Virtue of the Joust
Give them point values and let the Bret player choose one of them for his Hero or Lord.
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Post by cwalker on Jul 11, 2015 13:04:10 GMT
I hear what you are saying about messing with the Core rule book. I am really hesitant to do it. We came up with the Disruption negates Steadfast almost immediately in the 8.5 draft and the no conga line rules also.
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Post by KevinC on Jul 11, 2015 13:09:38 GMT
cwalker, I think your right about virtues, and I think I'll keep it a small list.
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Post by boda317 on Jul 11, 2015 13:43:12 GMT
With regards to the foot knights points do seem decent after reading what I missed. Also the impact rule with the knights seem good. Not too crazy but enough hit to actually do something
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Post by avatarofbugman on Jul 11, 2015 15:10:43 GMT
I low the Brettonian charge being a thing to worry about. Many armies have special rules that usurp the main rules. Dwarven missile weapons ignore the -1 for stand and shoot. Ogres with a brace of handguns have quick to fire and can be used in cc but the empire handguns cannot. This slight alteration allows the main rule to work fine without a wholesale change. It makes Bretts scary.
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Post by mahosh on Jul 11, 2015 20:18:23 GMT
Hey all. I got here because I wanted to re-do the Bretonians, and my friends addressed me here. Since the Bretonians are my favorite army, I'm not going to be easy on you :-) 1. First, I appreciate that you did it. It's not an easy task, and I'm glad someone other than me tried to accomplish it. 2. The army: I don't know if it's because it's not ready, but I really miss more rare/special units. Other armies has a 5-8-5 (core-special-rare) setting, more or less, and I think it should really go this way. I also think there should be new lord/heroes types, like a bard, or a hero that is an upgraded pilgrim. 3. You did few things, that changes the nature of the chivalry army it had, like - There isn't a free champion for the knight units, there isn't a "must" for a bsb nad the king has no connection to the army (he just a lord that hit ppl). I really think that those points really made the army (along with the praying to the lady, and protecting the damselsbetween the knoght etc. It's a shame to remove it. 4. I didn't like that you took the combined profile from the End of Times books. It's way too op. Either put it as a new rule to all armies, or don't use it at all. 5. I did like the crossbows idea. Maybe it should be a special unit since they are trained soldiers and not peasants. 6. I did like the idea of putting the usurper in the book, but I didn't like the idea of him leading an undead host. Either put him on the vampire/ undead book, or give him one unit of them, and the rest from this book.
I think that's enough for one go :-)
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Post by KevinC on Jul 11, 2015 20:55:55 GMT
Mahosh,
Welcome and thanks for the comments!
This is merely a first draft and by no means anywhere close to a final product. It's the first draft of a playtest list.
I want to add more units, but Bretonnia should ultimately be an army about knights though, otherwise it's another Empire army. I will be adding more though.
Regarding the restrictions, 6th/7th armies had a lot of restrictions in the army lists. One reason I like 8th edition army books is because they took the army books back to the days of the 4th/5th army books. In my eyes, the worse part about the 6th edition Bretonnian book is that it's filled with restrictions. I want players to have less restrictions when creating a Bretonnian army.
Using the combined profile for monsters is a direction, it seems, 8th edition was going to take. It also give Bretonnians something special to use combined profiles and I'm not saying I have the points perfect.
Good point about the Usurper.
Like I said, this list is by no means finished. At this point I'm most concerned with getting Lance Formation right. I really like the rule I wrote for that, so I'm interested to see how it goes in actual games.
Thanks for the comments, I will keep them in mind. Please let me know if you have more and if you try out the list...
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Post by smokemeakipper on Jul 12, 2015 0:59:02 GMT
I think the bretonnia list is good too. the foot knights being the most needed addition. However I think the steadfast negation will hit horde armies (goblins and skaven) really hard. they don't really have a hope of winning a combat all they can do is hold them up with extra bodies. 100 goblins every time would break and die every time when charged. the only way I can see them sticking around for a turn is to take a character with crown of command. id vote for extra damage on the charge instead I think if its needed.
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Post by avatarofbugman on Jul 12, 2015 1:03:01 GMT
Had anyone tried this out? I am doing a game on Friday and will report soon after.
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Post by mahosh on Jul 12, 2015 3:29:23 GMT
Thanks for the quick replay. Good luck with the testing, I'm looking forward to hear about the results. It's true that bretonia is all about knights, but it's about other stuff too. It's about the medieval people and they cultures, it's about the peasants and more. You can add units that are not knights, and still don't make them seem like The Empire at all. In order for it to compete with other armies, you need those extra kind of units, and an option to build an army that is not always made of knights, so the enemy wouldn't just bring anti-knights units, and the battles will be different from each other.
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Post by Mighty moose on Jul 12, 2015 7:54:30 GMT
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