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Post by KevinC on Jul 4, 2015 18:17:06 GMT
See the FINAL army list here: THE GRAND ARMY OF BRETONNIANote that Magic items, Knightly Virtues and several special characters are not yet finished and so have been left out – they will appear in the next draft. I am considering dropping Knightly Virtues all together, but let me know if you have an opinion about that. Please let us know results of play testing or any other comments or opinions you might have. Thanks!
EDIT: Note, when play testing Lance Formation described in the PDF, please add: any charging Knight armed with a lance gains the Impact Hits (1) special rule, which is resolved with a Strength of 6.
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Post by avatarofbugman on Jul 10, 2015 21:48:34 GMT
Like my first glance. The inclusion of a foot knight unit will be welcomed by many, I am sure. I will comment more when I can read it more in depth tonight.
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Post by danmc242 on Jul 11, 2015 0:17:06 GMT
At first glance, it looks good. I like the new ward save approach, starting with a basic save that can be improved by praying. Nice to have option of 1st or 2nd player choice back. The new Lance formation really interesting. One suggestion might be adding the Devastating Charge rule to any unit charging in Lance formation. I don't see Questing Knights or Questing vow. Is this something that is still under consideration? I saw one site that modified Questing Vow by removing Always Strikes Last rule regarding great weapons when charging but otherwise remains the same. I like the increase in WS for Men at Arms & Battle Pilgrims.
I'm a BIG Bretonnian fan. Thank you for your efforts & I look forward to reading more.
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Post by TheREALricksalamone on Jul 11, 2015 1:00:10 GMT
I like devastating charge instead of getting rid of steadfast. That might change the game mechanic too much and steadfast is one of the best rules in the game.
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Post by avatarofbugman on Jul 11, 2015 2:14:05 GMT
So you like the Templar knights, Dan?
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Post by avatarofbugman on Jul 11, 2015 2:16:31 GMT
I think the first turn removal of steadfast is a good touch. It denotes the wholly different chaos caused by a lance charge. Remember that the lance technically interepenetrates. Having faced Bretts a lot, just devastating charge alone wouldn't do enough as most units will save on steadfast and then pound the Knights down over time.
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Post by TheREALricksalamone on Jul 11, 2015 2:17:06 GMT
Templar knights allow for some cool modeling. Would these then replace questing knights?
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Post by avatarofbugman on Jul 11, 2015 2:47:11 GMT
I think the replacement to questing knights is the ability to give knights of the realm great weapons instead of lances.
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Post by KevinC on Jul 11, 2015 2:51:57 GMT
Hey guys,
So Questing Knights, are still there. Knights of the Realm have the option to replace their lances with great weapons. I always felt Questing Knights were this forced kind of semi-elite unit, not worthy of their own profile and rules. So I combined them with Knights of the Realm.
Lance Formation: lets do some playtesting. Bretonnian Knights are suppose to be the best and most feared cav in the Warhammer world and I wanted to make that so in game terms. Huge mobs of Goblins and claws of Skaven are going to worry if a unit of Bretonnian Knights charges them! I like the idea of Devastating Charge, but we'll see...
Templar Knights are foot knights...
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Post by avatarofbugman on Jul 11, 2015 2:54:27 GMT
Danny, want to test this list sometime next week? I could do monday, Wednesday or Friday night most likely.
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Post by boda317 on Jul 11, 2015 3:31:54 GMT
Ok first i want to say that i love the effort. this is a really good start. i like the changes so far just a few questions. 1. lance formation: do they get attacks from the sides too like the current books says or is the negating steadfast replacing it? 2. do the peg knights get a banner? i don't believe i saw an upgrade for the banner 3. i think the foot knights are little over in points and here is why i say this. i compared it empire great swords and found that points wise the foot knights are more points for the same stat line and less armor. plus the foot knights have to upgrade for the great swords if they want them. so a less armored knight costs more for the same model of the other human army. yes all the different options are a great idea and can fit a number of situations but i believe that this, even though it is a point or two difference, it too much. 4. i agree on the questing knight being pushed. i never used them because for slightly more points you get a far better knight with the grail knight 5. i agree with the devastating charge rule. if the knights flee as a reaction they lose they boon of the lady. so there is no point not to charge and with that comes rubber lance syndrome. we have all had it and bretonnian players have felt it the most. if the knight charge a full unit and miss then the getting rid of stead fast will mean almost nothing. 6. do the bowmen still have the defensive pikes? or is that gone completely. i liked the idea of the crap foot troops having a chance with a charging unit. 7. i love the fact the wizards have a few different lores but i feel they should also get light. think about it, the light of the lady shinning down on them and it can give them a little bit better buffing than just beasts 8. the bretonnion duke, can he be on foot or is he required to be on something mounted? and the same goes for the paladin, can he be on foot or must he be mounted? 9. do you plan on still having the 1 unit restriction on peg knights? back when the book came out i could understand why they did this but in 8th ed i don't feel it is needed anymore 10. the usurper of the realm is a great idea and i think it lends to a lot of fluff. 11. will there be virtues still or will those be tossed out for the normal 8 or so magic items? or will they be like the dwarfs and the virtues are up-gradable tier system like upgrades 12. all in all i like where this is going and look forward to it being finalized so i can get to playing with it.
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Post by cwalker on Jul 11, 2015 4:08:36 GMT
How does the Lance Formation work? Is it like it is now or do they just bust steadfast on the turn they charge in any formation they happen to be in? I also prefer to use existing rules to upgrade them and I think devastating charge is the right call for the Lance Formation. Burning Arrows on the bowmen - is that still a thing? What about an option for a skirmish unit of bowmen like the last book? Banner option for Peg Knights is missing I think.
The big problem with Bret Lances is that they get stuck into Steadfast units and just sit there. Devastating Charge will help as it dishes out more damage - people don't mind if they crushed in combat by dice - they get miffed when a special rule defeats their unit and dice don't play a part.
If the rules for Steadfast go away if you are disrupted it may be something to look at for Bretonnian Lances to count ranks in rows of 3 like they do now - so you would need only 6 Knights to do it right? Two complete ranks Disrupt a unit.
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Post by avatarofbugman on Jul 11, 2015 4:43:10 GMT
Boda, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the base strength of a great swordsman 3 instead of the Templar 4? Also, great swords have no ward save and cost 11 points per model. The Templars when upgraded to great weapons cost 12. For another comparison, a dwarf warrior with GW costs 10 points. I think the cost is about right. Maybe not spot on, but pretty close.
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Post by avatarofbugman on Jul 11, 2015 4:45:24 GMT
Cwalker, I'm not positive, but I believe the rules for who attacks is the same add the present lance formation. Also, the devastating charge rule may allow extra wounds, but in my experience the Brettonians often win the first round of combat only to be thwarted by steadfast.
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Post by montegue on Jul 11, 2015 5:30:39 GMT
Steadfast autobreak is too much for 8th ed. Instead, I'd do the following -
A unit in Lance Formation gains the Devastating Charge USR, in addition to Impact hits (1).
now you're putting out more hurt, and are more likely to break steadfast, without actually autobreaking it.
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