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Post by TheREALricksalamone on Jul 18, 2015 1:46:42 GMT
Why are the knights in ranks of 3? They should be 6 wide to take advantage of the new horde rule. Is there some advantage to 3 wide or is he just locked in the old ways?
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Post by avatarofbugman on Jul 18, 2015 2:05:16 GMT
Turn 2 sees the Brettonian fail 2 out of three charges, but the successful charge is against a non stubborn unit. We are playing remove steadfast and devastating charge. The combat didn't tell us anything. I only lost by 1 and rolled snake eyes. Dwarfs get off one charge. Shooting hurts the squires, but little else. The Brettonian unit that made their charge earlier lose combat and get run down by the gw warriors. The battle pilgrims keep control of a building. The other longbeards lose to a unit of knights and hold.
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Post by avatarofbugman on Jul 18, 2015 2:05:51 GMT
The game was called. The Brettonians were down to 1 knight unit and staring at a unit of hammerers to their side.
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Post by avatarofbugman on Jul 18, 2015 2:07:42 GMT
Something needs to help Brettonians in combat. They shouldn't be forced to being an infantry army to last through combat. Some boost in toughness or something, but they can't become to costly.
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Post by avatarofbugman on Jul 18, 2015 2:09:57 GMT
As for the lance and charging, they should get some combination of the current lance rules from gw, devastating charge for front rank and removal of steadfast. Don't forget that these would be army rules. The dwarven book had rules that increased dwarven cc and a base warrior stayed the same cost.
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Post by avatarofbugman on Jul 18, 2015 2:10:27 GMT
Danny said he would pay 28 points for a toughness 4 knight.
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Post by avatarofbugman on Jul 18, 2015 2:11:06 GMT
It would definitely have evened out the game.
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Post by TheREALricksalamone on Jul 18, 2015 2:20:25 GMT
Humans are toughness 3 though. I agree that it would help them but its standard for only hero level and up to be toughness 4. Even though it didn't matter in this game I feel like breaking steadfast is still too much. Dev charge plus easier hording should be good for them but EE encourages large infantry units for the the purpose of being steadfast. Hopefully we can get a few more play tests and thanks for sharing tonight's game.
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Post by avatarofbugman on Jul 18, 2015 2:41:10 GMT
Devastating charge by itself didn't do it, we tried. Impact hits would be better. The problem with devastating charge is that you have to roll to hit, thus limiting the effectiveness. In the new horde formation that means at most 6 extra attacks, 3 hits, maybe, and 1 wound. Dwarfs would pass steadfast and then laugh at the weak squishy men as they get pounds in.
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Post by avatarofbugman on Jul 18, 2015 2:43:05 GMT
The issue is the same as with all knight units, if they don't break the enemy on the charge they are generally in trouble. What makes it different is that this is supposed to be an army of knights, which makes it an army of "we're screwed'
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Post by avatarofbugman on Jul 18, 2015 2:49:08 GMT
Two other notes. Kevin, why the points increase? Is it because of the ward save business? If so, I would nix the increase as I feel that those army special rules are much like the dwarf army rules, and most of our units actually went down in price.
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Post by danmc242 on Jul 18, 2015 12:14:06 GMT
The claim that knights should be toughness 3 because they're human is a little skewed. Chaos warriors are toughness 4, 3+ armor save + parry save at 15pts. Knight of the Realm is Toughness 3, 2+ armor save, 6 ward save and cost 28pts, almost double. Chaos Knights are human and they're Toughness 4, 1+ armor save, cause fear, magical attacks & cost less than Grail knights (43pts v 45pts). If Knights are going to cost 28pts each then Bretonnian Knights of the Realm & grail Knights should be toughness 4 especially Grail knights at 45pts which is 7pts higher than current rules. Knight errants can stay at toughness 3 to represent lack of experience & training. This is just how I see it.
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Post by danmc242 on Jul 18, 2015 12:29:57 GMT
I think Bretonnians auto breaking steadfast is a must! This does not guarantee they'll win combat & break opponent as was proven last night (Damn dice!!!). All this change does is give them a chance to beat opponent on the charge which they really can't do now under current rules. Good time last night Jay. Thanks for hosting.
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Post by avatarofbugman on Jul 18, 2015 13:06:12 GMT
Also, the grail reliique, for its cost and the fact that it can be targeted instead of the pilgrims jumping in front of it, need to offer better than a 6+ ward.
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Post by avatarofbugman on Jul 18, 2015 13:10:43 GMT
I agree that the toughness argument is off as well. First, there are exceptions everywhere amongst all stat lines. Second, it sounds a little too much like 'I want my knights to have it then'
I think we all know people on real life that are way tougher than others, and all of them are human. In the dog world would you give a bichon the same toughness as a American staffordshire terrier (pit bull for the unenlightened) I'll tell you right now, that would be wrong, but they are both dogs , just bred and raised a whole different way.
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