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Post by grandmasterwang on Aug 5, 2017 9:38:30 GMT
Awesome dwarf advice in this one. Love it.
I also love the Steamdrill upgrade for miners. It's paid off many a time and the 2 Strength 7 attacks on the charge or Strength 6 on the receiving end can help poke a wound through tough armor or a monster.
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Post by Naitsabes on Aug 5, 2017 17:25:34 GMT
yes, yes. Steam Drill is a must just to make the miners show up on time more often. I am having my first game with the list I posted above on Wednesday. Pretty excited for their first outing. I'll try to snap some pictures.
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Post by Naitsabes on Aug 10, 2017 16:53:13 GMT
well, I failed on the picture front. But, I did play my first game! And, against a fellow dwarf. Since we had a nice dwarven hold gate on a table edge we decided this must have been a fight about who enters the gate first for an audience with the High King. Yet, no beards would be shaven and quarter would be given. My list is above. He had: 2x thunderers, 2x bolt throwers, a block of warriors with a bsb and a block of hammerers with a lord. He deployed everything close together in a corner and then marched straight forward (like a true dwarf I suppose). I realized that nothing in my list could stand up to his Lord+hammerer and taking down the other block would take longer than I could keep the lord+hammerers away. I resorted to avoiding the blocks, have the longbeards come around the flank (cunningly using terrain) and with the timely appearance of the miners destroyed his 2xthunderers+bolt throwers. In the meantime, he did the same to my thunderers and cannon. In the end it was a draw because locally we do give half points for units under half strength and so he got something for the rangers which left me only 80 points ahead. Lessons (re)learned: - target priority for the cannons. Didn't shoot the bolt throwers in turn 1 which allowed them to really put the hurt on the rangers. I swear I would have done this right if I had Empire cannons - you can fail panic tests, even on Ld9. Poor rangers went after the bolt throwers, almost made it, then panicked like some goblin rabble. - gyrocopter. I did charge a bolt thrower and eventually I killed it but, it was a struggle. Just seems shooting war machines is futile with the steam gun. so, do you not hunt war with gyros? - dwarf shooty units are tough! his thunderers did not just fall over. they had shields (and so the 5++ shield wall when charged) and, at one point a unit charged into the flank of my miners (my mistake) and really put the hurt on them. Hope my thunderers will grow up and fight like that one day. Fun game, I don't get to play very much unfortunately. Now painting my way to 2000pts.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 17:11:59 GMT
Depends on the race with the gyros. Dwarf warmachine crew are some of the toughest out there. I wouldn't hesitate against skaven, humans, and elves but you're in for a long combat against dwarves (which isn't a bad thing as it keeps the warmachine from shooting).
I use gyro steam gun against hordes. Being able to cause 15-20 hits even at S3 is nothing to snuff at and it helps get big blocks of infantry down to manageable numbers. I rely on counter-battery fire when the enemy has cannons (and bolt throwers).
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Post by mottdon on Aug 10, 2017 19:11:51 GMT
Something to consider for your Gyrocopters is the Brimstone Gun as well. It is largely overlooked in this (8th) version of Warhammer due to the effectiveness of the steam gun against hordes, and since 8th largely leans towards the use of hordes, it just makes sense....with MOST armies.
Against heavily armored armies, the Brimstone Gun might be a better option. You don't get as many hits against your opponents, but those hits are better at getting through that armor. If you are solely going to be War Machine hunting, I might give that a try.
It also might be worth taking two Gyros, giving one the Brimstone Gun and Vanguard, then send it after those War Machines. The other one, with a Steam Gun, send forward to harass the Hammerers. They will usually only have a heavy armor save (5+) even though they have the option to take shields for +1 point. The shields only help vs shooting, so you don't usually see them taken. Even so, the Steam Gun can simply harass and roast several Hammerers all game long. You should be able to get several kills through every turn.
Now, I'm bettin' that the BSB was toting the Master Rune of Grungni, which would give them a 5++ ward save as well, so that would reduce your effectiveness considerably. Still, it's good to have that pressure constantly being applied.
Oh - and there's it's bomb run. Don't forget to use that.
Overall, Gryo's are a lot of fun to use and a real threat to your opponents.
Glad you had a good first Dwarf game!
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Post by mottdon on Aug 10, 2017 19:28:23 GMT
One thing I was wondering, how effective were his Bolt Throwers? They seem to be weak compared to the rest of the Dwarven artillery, but they are the cheapest option that Dwarves have. They even have their own special rune, Flakkson's Rune of Seeking, that will allow them two hit flyers a touch better. That can even be increased with a Rune of Accuracy too!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 20:54:04 GMT
Problem I have with the Brimstone gun is because of Dwarf BS you're almost always hitting on 6's, 5's at best.
I'd rather the auto-hits against hordes and organ guns/weight of crossbow/handgun fire against those tough single targets.
I have two bolt throwers and I like them, but I would probably use either their special rune ONLY or no runes as they just get too expensive for what they do.
With War of the Beard dwarves not being allowed cannons I'm looking at picking up another couple bolt throwers for my upcoming War of the Beard campaign otherwise I'm going to get destroyed by dragons.
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Post by mottdon on Aug 10, 2017 21:00:48 GMT
Yeah, that hardly seems fair for Dwarves not to be able to have cannons but elves can have Dragons. What's the balance I wonder?
P.S. - I only have one Blot Thrower, but I've never even used it. I might give it a try soon.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 21:11:45 GMT
No handguns or pistols either
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Post by Naitsabes on Aug 11, 2017 1:57:14 GMT
One thing I was wondering, how effective were his Bolt Throwers? They seem to be weak compared to the rest of the Dwarven artillery, but they are the cheapest option that Dwarves have. They even have their own special rune, Flakkson's Rune of Seeking, that will allow them two hit flyers a touch better. That can even be increased with a Rune of Accuracy too! The bolt throwers did put the hurt on my rangers. I don't think they are a bad choice...but, I haven't seen a dwarf organ gun in action. War of the Beard? Dwarfs get super-runes, elves get drake riders. sounds fair..not!
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Post by knoffles on Aug 11, 2017 6:29:42 GMT
Organ guns are fun but like everything artillery they can be hit or miss even when runed up (the same with cannons, the number of times I've rolled a 1 to wound with a cannon feels obscene). They are pretty much the same as the hellblaster but more reliable and with a greater range. The range is for me the key as enemy archers can't sit out of range and pepper it hoping to get a 6 to wound without the retaliation. Also if you roll one misfire on a dice you only get -1 to hit, rather than half the number of shots on the remaining artillery dice. That is huge, especially as with runes and engineers meaning you can be hitting on a 2+ normally (at short range, remembering there is no negative for multishot with the organ gun). It's also why you see Dwarf players rerolling one artillery dice even if it's a low roll and not a misfire, it's total worth the risk.
Like Hellblasters they also have a massive fear factor for opponents who have been decimated by them and they will avoid/target them with everything. They are the Dwarf waywatchers 😀
@ryryak's comments are spot on above and I'll add that template vs brimstone for war engines: the template will auto hit the warmachine requiring a 6 to wound. The Brimstone Cannon(?) requires 6's to hit (if you moved + for the multi shot) and then (I think as going from memory on the train) 6's to wound as it's only Str 5 AP. That's why most players don't take it. The template is just far more versatile.
I always forget they can bomb and can do so even when they March, meaning you can still cause damage when sneaking a gyro over his lines to continually template the units from behind as they move up (a favourite tactic of mine as they also have to normally test for marching too).
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Post by Naitsabes on Sept 3, 2017 0:25:15 GMT
well, fittingly, this project is M3. Here is my attempt at a 2100pt list. Why not 2K? Because I have too many special choices. People here will need to pair down their standard 2500pt list anyway. Not a big issue, this is a stop gap until I have my own 2500pts together. Characters (387) Runesmith, Ro Iron, Ro Stone, shield, Ro Spellbreaking (2x) Thane BSB, MRo Gromril, Ro Cleaving Thane, Great Weapon, Ro Fortitude (2x) Core (537) 24x Longbeards, shield, FC, Ro Stoicism 10x Thunderers, shield, FC Special (1025) Cannon, Ro Accuracy Grudge Thrower, Ro Penetration 2x Gyrocopter 20x Hammerers, FC, Ro Slowness 20x Miners, FC, Steam Drill Rare (150) 10x Rangers, Musician Let me know what you think. - as usual, I am wondering: enough magic defence? - both of my blocks are stubborn, so they should hold out...but, hold out for what? it's not like there is a unit of knights coming to the rescue. I will just have to play more games before I trust these blocks to grind through things. - above is pretty much all my models. I only have another runesmith and grudge thrower and more miners at my disposal so, don't suggest including 30 slayers
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Post by knoffles on Sept 4, 2017 8:35:05 GMT
Naitsabes, the list looks fine. With the MRo Gromril on your BSB, I'd be more inclined to give him a GW rather than a Ro Cleaving, as it's cheaper and you could then add a Ro passage (ha, try casting curse of anheir on us now) or use the points on something else. You can always make the fluff out that he uses the standard as his GW or that he plants it in the ground in order to use his GW. I think the cannon should have Ro forging rather than accuracy (assume that's a typo). If you can afford it, I'd try and fit the Ro Accuracy onto the grudge thrower, as rerolling the scatter can make a big difference. I'd go that rune over forging as the stone thrower misfire chart is more forgiving than the black powder one (with the above saving on the Ro Cleaving you are part way there. I'd actually drop some of the armour runes on the characters, if necessary, to make sure I fitted it in. But that's my personal preference).
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Post by knoffles on Sept 4, 2017 8:46:49 GMT
Oh and stubborn blocks are where it's at. It doesn't matter if anything else is coming to the 'rescue', it frustrates the hell out of opponents when your dwarves refuse to budge (our very own Bluke can attest to that). On that note, it maybe worth considering dropping the Ro Stolicism and slowness and giving the hammerers the MRo Groth. That will give a 12" stubborn bubble which should cover the Longbeards AND thunderers. Nothing worse for opponents than hitting the 'easy' unit of shooters (which they will likely target first, assuming they will blow through them), then stopping dead, allowing one of your blocks to then flank them.
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Post by Naitsabes on Sept 4, 2017 16:57:00 GMT
good points. will mull this over and post a new list.
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