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Post by mottdon on Nov 18, 2017 14:13:25 GMT
Yeah, games like this are exactly why I hate DPs. They're broken. They are also one of the main reasons why WoC are the top army in the game. They can be totally unbeatable if they want to be. Just the fact that your opponent had to leave his wings off to make it a bit more fair for you says a lot. Now, if DPs weren't a part of the army, they would be a middle tier army, where they should be. When one solitary creature takes out the majority of your losses, that's broken.
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Post by Naitsabes on Nov 18, 2017 17:51:11 GMT
Yeah, games like this are exactly why I hate DPs. They're broken. They are also one of the main reasons why WoC are the top army in the game. They can be totally unbeatable if they want to be. Just the fact that your opponent had to leave his wings off to make it a bit more fair for you says a lot. Now, if DPs weren't a part of the army, they would be a middle tier army, where they should be. When one solitary creature takes out the majority of your losses, that's broken. Sounded like another good game. Gyros are excellent. Like in this game I've had 1 almost single handedly take down 30 nurgle warriors. Though the fewer models left in the unit, the less effective they become. Can you remember the loadouts of his DP was it mark of Khorne to fit in with the rest of the army? Final question, is your slayer naked (in terms of runes)? Daemon Prince, we all love to hate them. This particular guy was rather tame, he had MoK, S of Striking, Chaos Armor, Charmed Shield and Soulfeeder...I think that's it. With the Thunderstomp that typically ends up being six wounds or so. But, could be more with hot dice and if the dice are cold no worry, he is unbreakable, there is always next round to recover any wounds through Soulfeeder. I am fine with Daemon Princes beating up everything in hand-to-hand, it just should be possible to drown them under warm bodies coming from all sides. Right now it really only is war machine shooting they need to be slightly worried about. Hopefully that is what 'unstable' will do. The slayer was naked. So...can you deck him out to have a snowflakes chance against that Daemon Prince? I don't think so but, surprise me!
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Post by mottdon on Nov 18, 2017 19:45:29 GMT
Rune of Parry will make him -1 to hit, so that helps. Master Rune of Flight will allow him a ranged attack. There's more...
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Post by Naitsabes on Nov 18, 2017 20:34:30 GMT
one word to crush all dreams of slayer greatness: Thunderstomp!
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Post by Naitsabes on Nov 23, 2017 19:21:24 GMT
okay, I had another game. not much to write about because everything that could go wrong for my Empire opponent did (big miscast, demigryph panicking of the board, knight bus failing a charge..the list goes on). Good King Alfred did a round of combat with their Grandmaster to cool his hatred then let the Empire Army leave the field with their flags lowered. They vowed to return one day after making amends with the dice goods.
I had changed my army list slightly by dropping the useless slayerlord and putting in 10 more rangers. Now looking at my list I am wondering if I am too shooty for my dreams of an army of charging-fighting-moving dwarfs? I have 40 shooters plus the two war machines at the moment. I guess the rangers are double duty, effectively they are also a block of 20 great weapon dwarfs. Still. options:
-I could drop the rangers back to 10 and lose thunderers or quarrellers and replace that with a fat block of GW dwarfs -I could drop thunderers or quarrellers and put in another gyrocopter? or...crazy idea, a gyrobomber (would have to find a model I like though)
thoughts? other suggestions?
EDIT: Since it was buried a few pages back, here is my current again list
Lord (241) Lord on Shield, 2x RoFort., GW
Heroes (239pts) Runesmith, Shield, Rune of Spellbreaking (2x), Rune of Stone Thane, BSB, Great Weapon, Master Rune of Gromril
Core (687pts) 24x Longbeards, FC, shields, Rune of Stoicism 10x Thunderers (160pts), FC, Brace of pistols, shields 10x Quarrelers, GW+music
Special (1035pts) Cannon, Rune of Forging Grudge Thrower, Rune of Accuracy, Rune of Penetrating (1st rune) 2x Gyrocopter (one vanguard) 20x Hammerers, FC 20x Miners (255pts), FC, steam drill
Rare (290pts) 20x Rangers (150pts), Musician, 10x Ranger
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Post by avatarofbugman on Nov 23, 2017 19:39:27 GMT
You are not actually that shooty. I've played with 40 thunderers, 3 cannons, 2 organ guns and 2 grudge throwers. That's shooty. Seems note like bad luck.
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Post by mottdon on Nov 24, 2017 11:17:23 GMT
I agree, you don't have that much shooting if you don't consider the Rangers as a primary shooting unit. Sure, they can lay it on, but the crossbows are really more for making sure that they don't get stranded in the game. With only M3, opponents could easily run away from them.
Still, if you are concerned about the amount of shooting you have, I'd probably swap out the Quarrelers and Thunderers for a big block of GW Warriors. They can be quite effective as well, but I'd try getting them into combat as quickly as possible since they only have an armor save of 5+. They'll drop like flies, so you want to get as much out of them as quickly as possible before they're thinned out too much. I'd probably put the Strollaz Rune on them to get them engaged quickly and also to provide a distraction from your bigger threats of Longbeards and Hammerers! The Rangers role can switch to one of mainly cover fire followed up with flank charging if you drop your core shooting. I think you should definitely keep your cannon though.
The Slayer - meh. He can be a "sometimes" fun character, but if you're looking to shave points somewhere, I'd probably start with him. Gryocopters are great replacements, Gryobombers are good for clearing out horde armies, but work best in an "air-force" army (3-4 Gryocpoters and 2 Gyrobombers = bye-bye hordes!), but if you're going to swap the Q&T out for GW Warriors, you might consider taking another Thane to stick in with them. He'll provide them with a good anchor and make them a serious threat. Something worth considering and playing with.
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Post by Naitsabes on Nov 24, 2017 23:01:57 GMT
will keep your suggestions in mind. maybe it is fine as is, for now I'll keep the list and see how it goes.
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Post by Naitsabes on Dec 3, 2017 7:38:03 GMT
Got in another game. This one will give good King Alfred nightmares for a while. I was facing a Throgg horde. 2x 12 trolls, a unit of Nurgle warriors with BSB and sorceror, 2x horsemen, 2x shaggoth and a 4 dragon ogres.
In this game I placed most of my units on the right, facing the dragon ogres of all sizes. The trolls and warriors would have a little longer way from their center towards me. I forced the issue with the dragon ogres by moving up as fast as the short legs could. By the end of turn 2 all dragon ogres were dead and I had lost less than ten hammerers. I was feeling pretty good at this point although it already became clear how little shooting could do to the rest of his army.
Good King Alfred then took a charge from the chaos warriors and stood his ground quite well, the hammerers and miners joined in over the next turn or so. Meanwhile I did all I could to slow down Throgg...which basically meant throwing gyrocopters in the way. I eventually brought down the warriors but, it took too long, now Throgg was on me. Over the last two turns he ate the miners, half the hammerers and my BSB, all without even getting a scratch (I don't think I killed a single troll in the entire game, regeneration is mean). Good thing the bell rang just as Good King Alfred and Throgg were about to slam into each other. It would not have ended well for me.
I lost by 300 pts or so. I had a good time, my dwarfs were running around and for the first time I got my miners to come in and do something meaningful. And, thinking about the game, I don't think I made big mistakes. Throgg and his two hordes is ~1000pts I cannot get and I delayed them as much as possible. So, I would somehow need to minimize my losses even more to win this match-up. Seems like a tall order. I think I should make my cannon flaming. What do you think? What's the drawback? What are the flame resistant units I can't threaten with the grudge thrower?
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Post by mottdon on Dec 3, 2017 11:46:30 GMT
Another reason I hate WoC. Through abuse. Really, the only way to beat this list is to tailor your army to it. Flame Cannons, Burning Cannons, 6 Gyrocopter, Fiery Ring, Runes of Fire, etc.
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Post by strutsagget on Dec 3, 2017 12:00:14 GMT
How much is the rune of fire? I see no reason not to add it to a war machine or two. There is something that regenerates or made of burning material of fear in a lot of the armies.
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Post by mottdon on Dec 3, 2017 12:08:17 GMT
The Rune of Burning goes on artillery and only costs 5 points. But armies like that love to include a character (DP usually) with a Dragonbane Gem (again 5 pts). Then they become all but indestructible vs those machines (which are usually the only way to take them down).
But if you were to take 2 Flame Cannons and two Cannons (without RoBurning), then a hit or two from the Flame Cannons would open the door for your Cannons (always target Through).
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Post by knoffles on Dec 3, 2017 14:47:00 GMT
I will normally put a rune of fire on a cannon if I’m not taking iron drakes. Yes DP’s often have a 2++ vs fire and if that is the case I’ll just target him with an organ gun instead. DPs often have a decent normal ward too, so I often prefer the quantity of shots the OG gives
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Post by Naitsabes on Dec 3, 2017 17:57:59 GMT
I will not tailor my list. Ever. I rather march stoically to my doom.
Anyway, it seems if I have two war machines, I should make one burning. I can always drop a non-burning rock on that DP. so...cannon burning or grudge thrower burning? Tending towards cannon.
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Post by knoffles on Dec 3, 2017 18:00:56 GMT
I’m the same, I won’t ever tailor. I’d put flaming on the cannon.
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