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Post by grandmasterwang on Sept 11, 2017 0:23:33 GMT
I likewise don't think the hammerers really need to slowness rune. That and another rune dropped somewhere (possibly off the thane) and you could practically fit another runesmith or engineer.
Overall I like the list and like the Rune of Penatrating on the Grudge Thrower. That rune has served me well a couple of times, especially against elves.
Dwarfs are awesome and looking forward to seeing your hammerers all painted up.
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Post by Naitsabes on Sept 21, 2017 5:16:57 GMT
After much grumbling and mumbling back in the hold, here is my revised 2100pt list. I've fixed the war machine runes, was a bit reluctant to 'rune up' the grudge thrower so much. That's a lot of points to lose to some war machine hunter. I was debating putting those points towards vanguard on one of the gyrocopters instead. For now I am going with what the longbeards here say BUT, I did decide against the Groth One-Eye rune mainly because I still have this naive idea about my units maneuvering and spreading out over the field and then getting outside of stubborn range. Now, you are right, it is a cool rune and after a few bloody noses I might just put it in. It'll also be more useful when I have a few more units at 2500pts. Along the same vein I've kept the R of Slowness for now. It is just so spiteful (i.e. dwarf-y) to potentially make your opponent fail a charge.
The rest of the army is as before. Hoping to get a game in two weeks but it'll likely still be at 1500pts. Still need to paint up the grudge thrower and one gyrocopter. Slow and steady as befits this army.
Heroes (360pts) Runesmith, Shield, Rune of Spellbreaking (2x), Rune of Stone Thane, BSB, Great Weapon, Master Rune of Gromril Thane, Great Weapon, Rune of Fortitude (2x)
Core (537pts) 24x Longbeards, FC, shields, Rune of Stoicism 10x Thunderers (160pts), FC, Brace of pistols, shields
Special (1050pts) Cannon, Rune of Forging Grudge Thrower, Rune of Accuracy, Rune of Penetrating (1st rune) 2x Gyrocopter 20x Hammerers, FC, Rune of Slowness (1st rune) 20x Miners (255pts), FC, steam drill
Rare (150pts) 10x Rangers (150pts), Musician, 10x Ranger
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Post by Naitsabes on Oct 15, 2017 5:23:46 GMT
alright, had my first game earlier tonight with the list right above..and won! This was against beastmen and one of those games where everything went my way. The cannon went to town hitting every turn, wounding every turn handing out 5-6 wounds to big beasties. The best part though was the Rune of Slowness working like a charm (probably helped by closed lists and nobody expecting that rune). He failed his charge with the big unit of minotaurs with doombull then I got to combo charge with hammerers and longbeards (who both rolled exactly average to make that charge...did I mention things were going my way?). Lots of smashing with great weapons on both sides but that was too many dwarfs for the poor minos. After that the short dwarven legs couldn't quite turn around and keep up with the rest of the beast army clearing out my backfield but I still was up by ~400pts in the end.
Time to start thinking about a full blown 2500pt list!
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Post by frozenfood on Oct 15, 2017 13:12:09 GMT
Congratulations my bearded Sir and good luck with the next match
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Post by mottdon on Oct 15, 2017 13:42:37 GMT
alright, had my first game earlier tonight with the list right above..and won! This was against beastmen and one of those games where everything went my way. The cannon went to town hitting every turn, wounding every turn handing out 5-6 wounds to big beasties. The best part though was the Rune of Slowness working like a charm (probably helped by closed lists and nobody expecting that rune). He failed his charge with the big unit of minotaurs with doombull then I got to combo charge with hammerers and longbeards (who both rolled exactly average to make that charge...did I mention things were going my way?). Lots of smashing with great weapons on both sides but that was too many dwarfs for the poor minos. After that the short dwarven legs couldn't quite turn around and keep up with the rest of the beast army clearing out my backfield but I still was up by ~400pts in the end. Time to start thinking about a full blown 2500pt list! Congrats! I almost hate having games like this when you're trying to get a handle for how your list preforms. Still fun though!
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Post by Naitsabes on Oct 15, 2017 22:44:34 GMT
okay, looks like the minotaurs & friends will be back with a vengeance come Saturday. What do I do to bump the list up to 2500pts?
At my disposal: - a couple slayers -> really tempted to try the lone Daemon Slayer, he'll likely won't bring magic or (much) shooting so can't take the slayer down outside CC - Lord on shield -> he'll have to go in simply due to rule of cool (model) - around 30 dwarfs -> I need to bump up the core to 625pts. 10 quarrelers? or drop something else and put in the 30 great weapon warrior block? the latter is so...done before. - 12 miners -> not convinced a second unit small unit would do me much good (-war machines that I don't want to include at this point)
Help me out here! We have one week to figure it out.
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Post by knoffles on Oct 16, 2017 11:00:07 GMT
I love the lord on shield bearers. The 2*Ro Iron and 1* Ro fortitude combo with a great weapon is just gold. You can then give him 3* Ro warding for the 4++ ward (if that is your thing). Yes it is expensive but he really is the immovable object. I recommend always putting him in your weakest combat unit (in this case the longbeards). He is tough enough to not need the hammerers bodyguard advantage. I do sometimes switch out one of the armour runes for the Ro shielding to give a 2++ against Killing blow (especially if not giving him the ward save) when putting him in an all comers list but that is due to having been caught out before by executioners (and fear of a goblin sneaky stabber taking out your 300+ point model!). 30 GW Longbeards work well but they aren't far off the hammerer cost (though I still take them as high Str attacks are never a bad thing). I would personally add a unit of quarrellers as they are just too useful for removing enemy chaff. Can't help on the daemon slayer as using for the first time later this month. With the miners, I'd be more inclined to either bump up the size of your existing unit to 30 (as that number seems to work well for great weapon dwarves) or run two units of 15 (again I've found units of 10 can be a bit too frail). Which you use, depends on what role you want to use them for.
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Post by knoffles on Oct 16, 2017 13:36:01 GMT
If you are keeping the rune of slowness, it works well with the silver horn item to give you an extra attack (though your opponent will now likely be expecting the slowness rune so you may want to change it up 😀).
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Post by mottdon on Oct 16, 2017 14:33:00 GMT
Yeah, the Tank Lord is an awesome way to frustrate your opponents! I love him! Like knoffles said, Lord with (Shieldbearers, GW, 2xRoIron, RoFortitude, 3xRoWarding). That will give you a 2+, 4++ save Lord with S6, T7, W6 and Ld10! Stick him in the unit of Longbeards with the Stubborn banner and he's going nowhere.
That being said, now you need to force your opponent to engage him. Most players will simply avoid CC with him all game, redirecting and simply running away. Shooting can do this or points denial. Quarrellers will put constant pressure on your opponent, but won't kill entire units. Adding more Longbeards to the Lord's unit will force him to engage you (especially if you take out several of his units with your cannon). Personally, I'd include the Quarrellers since it'll keep the game more active and give you more options as to dealing with stuff. (Also presents more target saturation.) Quarrellers with GW can be a nasty realization for many opponents.
Things to keep in mind: - Your Miners can come in on your side of the board and provide your backfield more protection/support. - Don't allow your units to become isolated or separated. That's when your opponent will use his superior speed to gang up on your weaker unit and then play points denial. - If you include a Demon Slayer, keep him away from anything that will cause Impact Hits. If that happens, you've just thrown away all those points. - Tight formations of Dwarfs are simply hard to break. Keep it high and tight.
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Post by Naitsabes on Oct 17, 2017 23:50:40 GMT
Thanks for your advice. I think I can get away with making the Lord less tanky, closed lists so everybody will expect him to be super-badass when in fact he is 'only' badass. I agree that he should go into the longbeards. Right now I am cramming in a naked slayer (naked in every sense). The other option would be to leave him out and splurge those points on extra banners for quarrelers, more miners or more rangers (bumping up existing units) and some banner for the hammerers. Or do I shave points off somewhere and rune up the slayer?
Here is my first stab:
Lord (381) Daemon Slayer Lord on Shield, 2x RoFort., GW
Heroes (239pts) Runesmith, Shield, Rune of Spellbreaking (2x), Rune of Stone Thane, BSB, Great Weapon, Master Rune of Gromril
Core (687pts) 24x Longbeards, FC, shields, Rune of Stoicism 10x Thunderers (160pts), FC, Brace of pistols, shields 10x Quarrelers, GW+music
Special (1035pts) Cannon, Rune of Forging Grudge Thrower, Rune of Accuracy, Rune of Penetrating (1st rune) 2x Gyrocopter (one vanguard) 20x Hammerers, FC 20x Miners (255pts), FC, steam drill
Rare (150pts) 10x Rangers (150pts), Musician, 10x Ranger
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Post by mottdon on Oct 18, 2017 12:26:06 GMT
Well, I suppose it depends on how you're going to be using him. If you want him to go monster hunting (Ghorgons, Razordons, etc.) then taking the Master Rune of Smiting and a Rune of Might (+ a Rune of Fire if you are expecting Regeneration) can be a nasty surprise! (I've done that against an Arachnarok before. The look on my opponent's face was priceless!) Another fun combo is to use the Master Rune of Flight, 2xRune of Cleaving. There's no avoiding this guy. And while this takes away the advantage of using a GW for +2S, I personally think that it's totally worth it simply because I get more use out of the guy. I don't have to throw him at an opponent and hope I kill him before he kills me. It also forces my opponent into deciding if he wants to engage me or simply run away and keep taking the hits.
(One thing about the MRoFlight, you need to think about how you would use it according to the rules. I always play it as though the person wielding it only gets 1 ranged attack with it even though he has more attacks on his profile. I view it kinda like a hero who takes a bow. If you play it this way, it might not be the best option to take if you are throwing him at horde units.
If you want to throw him at a horde, give him a Rune of Parrying so that he can be a nightmare to get rid of. (It's hilarious to see a single Slayer hold up a horde of 40 models!) 2xRunes of Fire can also be really useful here to thin out the horde.
These are just some things to consider, but keep in mind that you'll essentially be throwing away all those points. You want him to at least earn back his points if not exceed them. That's the main factor in considering how you want to utilize him.
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Post by knoffles on Oct 18, 2017 16:16:05 GMT
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Post by mottdon on Oct 18, 2017 20:52:58 GMT
After reading that, the 3xRoFury sounds awesome. Expensive, but awesome if you roll lucky. That could be a potential 12 attacks at S5 and if you roll well for Ancestral Grudge at the beginning, then Hatred as well....from one dude. That guy could be a murder machine! And it could be really nice on a Lord on Shieldbearers too. Either way, you're going to wreck some face.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Oct 21, 2017 2:41:36 GMT
Let us know how it goes.
I have run a unit of 12 miners several times (without steam drill) with mixed results. I find they work decently as a second, backup miner unit. I do think it's worth trying that unit a couple of times as you were considering it. Even give them blasting charges for something different. (you could remove the GW's from the 10 quarrellers for the points). I've admittedly never had much luck with the blasting charges but the 12 shots could do something and it means they can potentially shoot on their arrival turn which no-one expects.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Oct 21, 2017 2:41:39 GMT
Let us know how it goes.
I have run a unit of 12 miners several times (without steam drill) with mixed results. I find they work decently as a second, backup miner unit. I do think it's worth trying that unit a couple of times as you were considering it. Even give them blasting charges for something different. (you could remove the GW's from the 10 quarrellers for the points). I've admittedly never had much luck with the blasting charges but the 12 shots could do something and it means they can potentially shoot on their arrival turn which no-one expects.
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