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Post by KevinC on Jul 9, 2019 13:53:36 GMT
Trolls are cheap because of stupidity. I actually had a hand in the points cost. I was one of the playtesters for the 7th edition O&G book. I was always a big fan of Trolls, and pointed out how nobody used them in prior editions, or at least not often (players at Tournaments thought I was crazy for using Trolls). I believe a one point they were 65 points each. At the end of the day, their stupidity was a huge draw back...there was no Monstrous Infantry rule (which now makes all monstrous infantry awesome), and you had to baby sit them. Anyway, in part due to my arguments and playtesting, Trolls were dropped significantly in price and people started playing them. I think they were 40 points in 7th.
Anyway, playtesting matters a lot. I can see calling the above unit too cheap for what it looks like on paper, but is it really? Why not take a Chaos Troll for 35 points, with regeneration, the benefits of monstrous infantry, faster movement, S5, vomit attacks? Or why not take Blightkings at 40 points, who are T5 (harder to kill) and can use their weapons in multiple ways, including S6 great weapons?
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Post by mottdon on Jul 9, 2019 14:32:54 GMT
I don't actually think Blight Kings would be harder to kill. WS7, 2+ armor save and a parry save as well as the Slaneesh gifts. That makes them quite hard to hit and even then, they have a GREAT save factor. I don't think they could really justify a T5 stat though.
Even among Trolls, you get various ranking levels. Chaos Trolls may get an edge as far as points, because they're a part of GW's favorite son (WoC), but I think all of this boils down to themes anyway.
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Post by Horace on Jul 9, 2019 15:35:28 GMT
Well the slaanesh guys do get the benefit of the MoS making them essentially ITP as well as having various other strengths over Trolls such as vastly superior Weapon Skill, Leadership and Initiative. Trolls require Leadership babysitting constantly, and while Regeneration is just about preferable to a 2+ or 3+ AS, there is not that much in it.
Compared to the Blightkings I think they are rightly less durable - that is the nurgle thing after all. Blightkings may be marginally better if I was trying to absolutely min/max things but I think it's fairly comparable - Superior WS & I in trade for a pip of Toughness and a better mark. Some sort of ASF shenanigans and access to Ensorcelled weapons compared to the Blightkings Armed to da Teef
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Post by KevinC on Jul 10, 2019 0:21:33 GMT
I aree about coming down to theme, mottdonHowever, for 35 points you get 3 S4 Attacks at WS7 and ASF. 3+ armour and perrry. They are good. But how many are you going to have? and do they really both dish out enough damage and have enough durability to go toe-to-toe with other elite units? I'm not sure... Frankly, if you take the halberd upgrade, making them 40 points, they now dish out S5 attacks, ASF and magical attacks. They lose parry and a point of armour. Without doing any playtesting, 35 base seems ok. Because I think you have to be careful what you put them up against...
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Jul 10, 2019 21:46:02 GMT
Will, I like them. Here's my take on the rules- Centurions of Depravity (Special Unit)
Points: 35 ptsM:4 WS:7 BS:3 S:4 T:4 W:3 I:6 A:3 Ld:8 TROOP TYPE: Infantry Base size: 40x40 mm UNIT SIZE: 5+ EQUIPMENT: Hand weapon, Chaos Armor and Shields. Options:May be equipped with Ensorcelled Halberds for +5 points per model. (normal command options +10 points) May carry a magic banner worth up to 50 points. SPECIAL RULES: Mark of Slaanesh, Always Strikes First, Eye of the Gods (Champion Only) Ensorcelled Halberd [equipment]: Count as normal Halberds and are magical attacks. Read more: eefl.freeforums.net/thread/209/wilsonthenarcs-painting-hobby-thread?page=8#ixzz5t84KYptNSweeet. Let me finish painting these 12, and then post pictures. Worth 1000 words. Sadly, my 12 will be armed with swords and not those fancy pantsy Ensorcelled Halberd.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Jul 10, 2019 21:50:34 GMT
I aree about coming down to theme, mottdon However, for 35 points you get 3 S4 Attacks at WS7 and ASF. 3+ armour and perrry. They are good. But how many are you going to have? and do they really both dish out enough damage and have enough durability to go toe-to-toe with other elite units? I'm not sure... Frankly, if you take the halberd upgrade, making them 40 points, they now dish out S5 attacks, ASF and magical attacks. They lose parry and a point of armour. Without doing any playtesting, 35 base seems ok. Because I think you have to be careful what you put them up against... I need to re-stress how "Infantry" troop types on 40x40mm base is a really different animal than TRUE Monstrous Infantry... which also happens to be on a 40x40mm base. The ranks? 3 versus 5. The offensive stomp. The supporting attacks. The immunity to stomp and/or thunder-stomp, versus vulnerability. IMHO: Infantry troop types on 40x40mm base is 90% for the "This looks cool" effect. Y'know?
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Jul 20, 2019 17:50:19 GMT
Bah! My phone doesn't take great pictures. Nonetheless, here's a closeup of a Centurion.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Jul 20, 2019 17:50:38 GMT
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Post by ryryak2 on Jul 26, 2019 18:12:34 GMT
I aree about coming down to theme, mottdon However, for 35 points you get 3 S4 Attacks at WS7 and ASF. 3+ armour and perrry. They are good. But how many are you going to have? and do they really both dish out enough damage and have enough durability to go toe-to-toe with other elite units? I'm not sure... Frankly, if you take the halberd upgrade, making them 40 points, they now dish out S5 attacks, ASF and magical attacks. They lose parry and a point of armour. Without doing any playtesting, 35 base seems ok. Because I think you have to be careful what you put them up against... I need to re-stress how "Infantry" troop types on 40x40mm base is a really different animal than TRUE Monstrous Infantry... which also happens to be on a 40x40mm base. The ranks? 3 versus 5. The offensive stomp. The supporting attacks. The immunity to stomp and/or thunder-stomp, versus vulnerability. IMHO: Infantry troop types on 40x40mm base is 90% for the "This looks cool" effect. Y'know? Couldn't agree more. INFANTRY on a 40x40 is something you take because it's cool. Not something you take because it's the best option. WAY too large a footprint for such a small return.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Aug 17, 2019 18:26:24 GMT
Centurions!
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Jan 24, 2020 17:27:51 GMT
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Apr 17, 2020 16:13:55 GMT
Here's a fun one, a bitzbash of Nurgle. Started as a possible Soul Grinder. I think it ended up as a Shaggoth. Base is 100mm x 120mm deep. Essentially it's half a humanoid giant, and half green Wyrm. Chaos serpentine centaur of the XXXL variety and all that.
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Post by Naitsabes on Apr 17, 2020 17:34:08 GMT
now that is a wretched creature of chaos. He clearly went too far north.
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Post by arraboy on Apr 17, 2020 19:04:12 GMT
Great conversion, looks awesome.
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Post by mottdon on Apr 17, 2020 19:34:24 GMT
EEEEEEW! SO GROSS!!!
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